Why are Fram Oil filters so bad?

[acdcking]

Guys,

What makes the Fram Oil filters so horrible? I know they had issues in the past, but haven't they improved drastically?

 

[metallicaeg]

Someone in a topic here posted a picture with one cut open.

It was horrendous quality.

 

[TonyMazz]

Before we get too far out of whack her...lets make sure we clarify what Fram you are talking about....

I have seen reports that their high end X2 has good filtering, good ADBV, good flow, yet their lower end product TG , DG models are junk.

Or if ALL Fram are junk please clarify....they have been making filters for 70+ years so can't imagine that all are junk.

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by TonyMazz:
Before we get too far out of whack her...lets make sure we clarify what Fram you are talking about....

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I'm going to go out on a limb here...

I think that most people here don't care if Fram has one good filter line in their sea of garbage. Why reward a filter company that puts out bottom feeder(1) products like the vast majority of Fram oil filters?


(1) I recognize that carp are useful fish, so if I have offended any carp, please accept my appology.

 

[Rob Taggs]

Proof is in the pudding. Check out some of the pictures posted, you will see the cheap cardboard endcaps and collapsed filter elements.

 

[Mr Nice]

At least Fram air filters are decent.

 

[T-Keith]

http://www.lesabret.com/filters/filter.html

Check out my study on filters.

For the record the Tough Guard and Double Guard are constructed very similarly to the Extra Guard. The X2 has some better qualities, but they use the same Bad ADBV design as the other filters, just a different material.

-T

 

[labman]

Nice study T-Keith. I depend on this board to keep me up to date on Fram. Having been disappointed with the one I cut up a number of years ago, I haven't bought another since. Even if Fram started producing filters that looked as good or better as the rest, I would still feel betrayed and never buy one again. For me to buy Fram, I would have to be convinced what they were selling in the past, cardboard and 1/3 the area of an AC, was in fact as good as the AC. Maybe I am wrong about Fram, but why take a chance on them when for the same price, I can have the better looking OEM's, Purolator, STP, etc, or for less, ST and other house brands.

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by LT4 Vette:
At least Fram air filters are decent.

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They don't look bad, but they tend to have tended to have fewer pleats than the other brands I have looked at. So why buy them?

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by XS650:

quote:

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Originally posted by LT4 Vette:
At least Fram air filters are decent.

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They don't look bad, but they tend to have tended to have fewer pleats than the other brands I have looked at. So why buy them?

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I like using them on my wife's car since her UOAs typically show only 4ppm of silicon in 5000 miles. So they definitely stop dirt very well!

 

[jsharp]

quote:

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Originally posted by XS650:

quote:

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Originally posted by TonyMazz:
Before we get too far out of whack her...lets make sure we clarify what Fram you are talking about....

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I'm going to go out on a limb here...

I think that most people here don't care if Fram has one good filter line in their sea of garbage. Why reward a filter company that puts out bottom feeder(1) products like the vast majority of Fram oil filters?


(1) I recognize that carp are useful fish, so if I have offended any carp, please accept my appology.

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Exactly. Not to mention their one good filter is about $10. You can buy 3 good filters for $10 if you pick other brands...

 

[ZiTS]

FRAM filters may appear to have sub-par construction, but everything I've seen about their filtering ability leads me to believe they are actually a decent filter. I personally have had several UOA's done with FRAM filters, and the results have always been excellent. Maybe they don't have the prettiest insides, but they seem to get the job done.

Now please...before everyone starts attacking me, this is only my opinion; just like everyone else's post is their opinion. Also, I would not hesitate to say the Tough Guard and X2 lines are very good filters. The PTFE-impregnated one is a joke, but the others actually do a fine job of filtering. Yes, the X2 may be a bit pricey, but so are the K&N and Mobil 1 filters, and they are not -let me repeat, ARE NOT- labeled/designated as extended drain capable.

Also, you can criticize the construction of FRAM all you want, but to my simple mind, it just seems odd that Champion is changing their line over to a design that is VERY similar to FRAM's construction. I'm not insinuating that Champion is trying to copy FRAM, but maybe they realize that some of FRAM's construction methods do have some positive attributes.

Z-

 

[ekpolk]

quote:

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Originally posted by ZiTS:
FRAM filters may appear to have sub-par construction, but everything I've seen about their filtering ability leads me to believe they are actually a decent filter. I personally have had several UOA's done with FRAM filters, and the results have always been excellent. Maybe they don't have the prettiest insides, but they seem to get the job done.

Now please...before everyone starts attacking me, this is only my opinion; just like everyone else's post is their opinion. Also, I would not hesitate to say the Tough Guard and X2 lines are very good filters. The PTFE-impregnated one is a joke, but the others actually do a fine job of filtering. Yes, the X2 may be a bit pricey, but so are the K&N and Mobil 1 filters, and they are not -let me repeat, ARE NOT- labeled/designated as extended drain capable.

Also, you can criticize the construction of FRAM all you want, but to my simple mind, it just seems odd that Champion is changing their line over to a design that is VERY similar to FRAM's construction. I'm not insinuating that Champion is trying to copy FRAM, but maybe they realize that some of FRAM's construction methods do have some positive attributes.

Z-

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I've got no flames for you, but I'm staying the course on filters with metal structure. Given that the consumer costs of Frams and others are very similar (really, they range from a low of $2 to a high of $12 (non-discounted K&Ns). This gives rise to endless debate about what's worth what, but in the end, we're talking a $10 difference for a critical product that lasts for many months in normal service.

Within that range, while it may be true that flimsy cardboard can hold a filter element in place, I'm not inclined to accept this, when the metal version is so much stronger. Necessary? Who knows. But I do know that in my limited filter cutting experiment (six at this point), Fram is the only one whose filter element support structure I could tear apart (easily) with my bare hands! Perhaps cardboard is adequate to the task, but I'm sure metal is MORE adequate. Oh yeah, the four hooks which attach the Fram bypass valve to its spring are hand-breakable plastic, whereas in a Champ labs filter, they're metal. Another scary (to me) Fram "feature."

It's your money, your car, and a free country. Make your choice, and I hope it works well for you.

 

[slalom44]

Originally posted by ZiTS:

quote:

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FRAM filters may appear to have sub-par construction, but everything I've seen about their filtering ability leads me to believe they are actually a decent filter. I personally have had several UOA's done with FRAM filters, and the results have always been excellent. Maybe they don't have the prettiest insides, but they seem to get the job done.

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I completely agree with you. Fram gets a lot of flack here due to their cheap construction, but overall it appears that the filter gets the job done.

I don't use Fram because there are other good filters out there that cost less.

 

[ekpolk]

quote:

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Originally posted by slalom44:
Originally posted by ZiTS:

quote:

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FRAM filters may appear to have sub-par construction, but everything I've seen about their filtering ability leads me to believe they are actually a decent filter. I personally have had several UOA's done with FRAM filters, and the results have always been excellent. Maybe they don't have the prettiest insides, but they seem to get the job done.

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I completely agree with you. Fram gets a lot of flack here due to their cheap construction, but overall it appears that the filter gets the job done.

I don't use Fram because there are other good filters out there that cost less.

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There is a guy who has a filter dissection comparision site who says he's had an engine damaged by a Fram filter when it's cardboard endcaps failed and partially disintegrated, allowing pieces to foul his lube system. I've heard of similar incidents from other sources. On the other hand, to be perfectly frank, I have never seen such a failure myself, or heard of one from a person I know well enough that I'd believe them without further inquiry. That said, it certainly does not appear that our roadsides are littered with the remains of cars destroyed by Fram-fragging.

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by ekpolk:
]There is a guy who has a filter dissection comparision site who says he's had an engine damaged by a Fram filter when it's cardboard endcaps failed and partially disintegrated, allowing pieces to foul his lube system. I've heard of similar incidents from other sources. On the other hand, to be perfectly frank, I have never seen such a failure myself, or heard of one from a person I know well enough that I'd believe them without further inquiry. That said, it certainly does not appear that our roadsides are littered with the remains of cars destroyed by Fram-fragging.

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I haven't personally observed an angine doing an unscheduled self disassembly because of a Fram.

I have seen one Fram with an incompletely glued end cap. No engine harm was done because the fiter hadn't been used and obviously wasn't going to be used used after it was cut open

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I did have an 83 Camry with the oil filter mounted base slightly down that would drain back into the engine with Frams cheesy ADBVs. Toyota, Wix and Purolator filters didn't have that problem on that car.

The majority of Fram failures go completely unnoticed by the average car owner. A leaky ADBV is a failure and by most accounts here is a common Fram problem.

 

[TonyMazz]

Well in digging through this forum I finally found some pictures of a DG-Fram torn down and saw the card board end caps everyone is talking about...

I also saw an X2 torn apart and notice they have METAL end caps...a screen in the composition media and a silicone ADBV. Seeing this has convinced me that up until now the collapsing of the filter can't happen on the X2 like the cheaper filters.

So lets clarify one thing that the $10 X2 Fram filters DO NOT HAVE cardboard end caps!! That is mis-information !!!

Having said that, I now am convinced for the same money I can get filters out there that seem to be fine for my GM SUV....I.e. AC-Delco etc....

I appreciate your opinions and critical eye...just have to becareful about lumping all things into one bucket for conveience sake.

Thanks for your help on this as I now will be moving to another filter and see how it goes...AND I will probably cut them open and see for my self how some of these are made and performed as I pull them off my trucks.

 

[T-Keith]

acdcking,

This topic has been rehashed many times in gruesome detail. If you do a search you will see a topic much like this every few months. There have been many pictures, tests, and opinions stated. There are people on both sides of the fence, some are very vocal and opinionated others simply state their opinion side and back off. It makes for a very heated and long topic, I don't think it needs to be continually brought up.

-T

 

[Eli89SHO]

I'm a very new member of the forum and have read all the bashings and attacks on the fram filters. I've also read a lot of the support people give fram filters. I've used a fram once (1) on my 89 SHO. Personaly, I didnt have to read any of the bashings to know that the fram oil filter quality just aint good. Out of all the filters I've used, Fram was by far the worst. Note: I've never cut one open. However, just from the way my car felt after putting a fram on, I would never use one again. If they have improved the quality of their new filters, thats great. However, before I saw the cut open frams, I new they were bad. After I saw the cut open frams I still new they were bad. Cheap cost cutting construction, leads to expensive engine problems.

On a side note... I use K&N. A big heavy, thick walled, good filtering, metal endcap, strong anti drainback valve, never bursting, $12 oil filter. I pay that much because I like the filter. What matters is that an oil filter be cheaper in price, but not cheaper in construction. If a $.50 no name oil filter were available but was built better that Fram, I would buy it.

An engine cost a lot more than an oil filter. Why put your engine at risk by using an oil filter that has the potential to slowly kill your engine.
Even if theres only a very slight chance, why risk it?

 

[AstroVic]

quote:

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Originally posted by Eli89SHO:
If a $.50 no name oil filter were available but was built better that Fram, I would buy it.

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SuperTech filters fit the bill...but they're a whopping $2.00.

Or you can buy one of the best filters money can buy...a Motorcraft FL820S (or similar)...for $2.97 at Walmart.