Why are all synthetic 10W-40 labeled high-mileage?

[Brieninsac]

I tried searching the site yesterday and couldn't find an answer to this question.

A few days ago I went looking for a synthetic 10w-40 for my motorcycle. It seemed like I couldn't find one that wasn't marketed toward high mileage cars. I'm curious why that is?

I ended up getting Mobile 1 motorcycle synthetic since I didn't know what was in the so-called high mileage oils.

 

[CATERHAM]

First welcome to BITOG!

The 10W-40 grade hasn't been specified for PCMO and even HDEO applications for very long time, that's why you'll only see it in aftermarket HM oils.

If you're looking for a 10W-40 oil for a motorcycle application their is no shortage of suitable oils since every M/C oil formulator makes the popular grade.

 

[clarklawnscape]

im guessin as no auto makers spec them anymore

 

[Brieninsac]

The manufacturer (Kawasaki) recommends 10W-40 for my motorcycle. If I want to stay with this weight and use a synthetic oil is it OK to use one that is labeled for high mileage cars? I just want to make sure there are no additives that would harm my engine.

From what I read in the John C. Woolum study at CSULA there appears to be no difference in synthetics marketed to either cars or motorcycles. I'm hoping that's the case since the cost is a lot less for a car version.

 

[clarklawnscape]

sorry, i missed the motorcycle part.

 

[CATERHAM]

MC oils generally contain different differnent additive pack' to PCMOs. In particular the ZDDP level is usually very much higher.
I'd stick to a proper bike oil for your bike. The oil may cost more but you're not using much.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Brieninsac
The manufacturer (Kawasaki) recommends 10W-40 for my motorcycle. If I want to stay with this weight and use a synthetic oil is it OK to use one that is labeled for high mileage cars? I just want to make sure there are no additives that would harm my engine.

Does your bike have a shared sump (wet clutch)? If so, the most important spec you need to look for is JASO MA. This spec ensures that the oil does not have too much friction modifiers in it to affect wet clutch performance. Whether a typical HM 10w-40 oil would work, I don't know, but it's possible.

There are a handful of HDEO oils that claim to meet JASO MA spec - Shell Rotella T and Rotella T6. Both are fairly popular with the bike crowd unwilling to pay the exorbitant motorcycle oil prices.

 

[ABerns]

... all 10w40 synthetics are high-mileage oils? Huh, just did a Google search, yep, a lot of them are.

I think Castrol still has a 10w40 that is not a HM oil. Also, why not a 5w40 syn?

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Brieninsac
The manufacturer (Kawasaki) recommends 10W-40 for my motorcycle. If I want to stay with this weight and use a synthetic oil is it OK to use one that is labeled for high mileage cars? I just want to make sure there are no additives that would harm my engine.

Does your bike have a shared sump (wet clutch)? If so, the most important spec you need to look for is JASO MA. This spec ensures that the oil does not have too much friction modifiers in it to affect wet clutch performance. Whether a typical HM 10w-40 oil would work, I don't know, but it's possible.

There are a handful of HDEO oils that claim to meet JASO MA spec - Shell Rotella T and Rotella T6. Both are fairly popular with the bike crowd unwilling to pay the exorbitant motorcycle oil prices.

The Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 is about the only reasonably priced HDEOs that also has the JASO MA designation. That said while it's ZDDP level is higher than a typical PCMO at 1078 ppm, it's still lower than most outright bike oils.

 

[Brieninsac]

My bike does have a wet clutch. I didn't realize having too much friction modifiers was bad, if anything I would have thought it was good. If the ideal thing to look for is JASO MA, will I find that in auto synthetics too?

I'm open to a 5W-40, I was just trying to stay with the manufacturer's recommendation to avoid any potential voided warranty issues. It seems like a 5W would help the bike fire up a little better in the mornings. So I might go that direction at my next change.

 

[Brieninsac]

BTW, I want to say it's nice to be able to talk oil freely on here.

On my Kawasaki and Dodge forums all I ever see are back-handed comments for not doing a search first or even bringing up the subject of oil because of everyone's different opinion. Personally, that's what I'm looking for, opinions.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Brieninsac
BTW, I want to say it's nice to be able to talk oil freely on here.

Welcome to BITOG!

By the way, we have a dedicated motorcycle oil subforum here on BITOG, in case you have not found it yet.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Brieninsac
I didn't realize having too much friction modifiers was bad, if anything I would have thought it was good.

More friction modifiers in oil = less friction. It is good in cars because it helps improve fuel economy. But in a bike it's bad because not enough friction can cause clutch slippage.

I don't know of any energy conserving 10w-40 oils though, so maybe this is not an issue, but if you see one that says "energy conserving" on the label, do not put it in your bike.

 

[SOHCman]

If you really wanted to use a HM syn 10w-40, they are much more robust additive wise than non HM, and I have used the M1 HM in a bike before and it worked fine, but at the end of the day a hdeo like rotella t 5w40 should have more of the ZDDP like a motorcycle oil will. I now just use rotella T.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: SOHCman
but at the end of the day a hdeo like rotella t 5w40 should have more of the ZDDP like a motorcycle oil will. I now just use rotella T.

Here are some VOAs to compare ad packs between Rotella T6 and M1 HM:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2566898#Post2566898

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1119052#Post1119052

The HM is a bit dated though, so I'm not sure if it's still representative of current production.

HM has more calcium, but Rotella has magnesium. Whether your bike cares one way or the other, I have no idea.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Brieninsac

I'm open to a 5W-40, I was just trying to stay with the manufacturer's recommendation to avoid any potential voided warranty issues. It seems like a 5W would help the bike fire up a little better in the mornings. So I might go that direction at my next change.

The T6 5W-40 won't be any lighter than a typical 10W-40 bike oil in your climate. If you don't want potentially compromize your warranty I'd stick to a proper bike oil of the recommended grade at least until the warranty expires. What's the sump capacity of your Kawa' 250? One quart?
I've seen mineral 10W-40 bike oil on sale for 5 bucks a quart.

 

[mongo161]

First of all welcome to BITOG!

Second.....Royal Purple has a 10w-40, Full Synthetic, that is available. IMO...this oil is the real deal for muscle cars.

In fact there is a special going on right now at Pep Boys.

 

[Brieninsac]

Thanks for the info guys, it really helps!

I am aware of the motorcycle section but my initial question was about the high mileage 10W-40 oils which seemed more appropriate for here.

This was my third oil change for the bike at 2,317 miles. I think I'll be set until next year (after my warranty expires) and at that time play with the weights a little and maybe go with a 5W-40.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: ABerns
I think Castrol still has a 10w40 that is not a HM oil. Also, why not a 5w40 syn?


That's one thing you have to hand to Castrol - they have no shortage in grade selection.

Another 10w-40 synthetic is RP as mongo mentioned - they have a wide variety of grades, too.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: ABerns
I think Castrol still has a 10w40


Syntec 10W40. How does this compare to Mobil 1 10W40HM?