Who's right? (or closer to right): Oil specification for my old Fiat Abarth, 5w40 or my new Honda SI, 0w20?

[Hoover]

My 2012 Fiat Abarth manual specified 5w40, my 2022 Honda Civic SI manual specifies 0w20. The engines are almost the same displacement, 1.4 vs 1.5, and they're both turbocharged. The Fiat Abarth was port injected while the Honda SI is direct injected, so there's that.

Why the (seemingly) very different oil specifications? Is it the decade between the two cars that's the difference? Did the auto industry and engine needs "evolve" a lot in that time? Are these two engines are more different than I'm guessing they are?

The Fiat engine seemed to really like the 5w40, going strong at 70,000 miles when I got rid of it.

Thanks.

 

[skyactiv]

If I had the final say on the oil type for the Civic Si, I'd spec an ILSAC A5 5W30 for all turbo Hondas across the board.

 

[atikovi]

Fiat Multiair system most likely. It was probably designed for the oil that was most popular back then, and more for engine protection then economy. You ever try and start the car if it has been sitting more than a few weeks? I can only imagine how much longer it would take with 0W20.

 

[OVERKILL]

The Honda may have wider bearings to account for the reduced viscosity. So yes, the engine design may be a fair bit different.

 

[Hall]

Maybe I'm missing something but what is the connection between a Honda engine and a Fiat engine ?

 

[benjy]

anything newer gets a thinner recommended oil, better or likely NOT. manufacturers only want things to last until warranty is out, then its your $$$$$. Lifetime is similar, until your warranty is out!!!

 

[CleanSump]

Two different manufacturers having different requirements for different spec products.
Your comparison is like asking why a Chevy 2.5 liter specs different oil than a VW 2.5 liter.
Hey, they're both 2.5 liters! So one manufacturer MUST be wrong.

 

[930.engineering]

My 2012 Fiat Abarth manual specified 5w40, my 2022 Honda Civic SI manual specifies 0w20. The engines are almost the same displacement, 1.4 vs 1.5, and they're both turbocharged. The Fiat Abarth was port injected while the Honda SI is direct injected, so there's that.

And? Displacement doesn't play any role at all for viscosity requirements, turbo charging very little.

Why the (seemingly) very different oil specifications?

Different engine designs.

Is it the decade between the two cars that's the difference?

Likely yes, but even 15 years ago when FIAT/Alfa invented their 1.4T multiair engines 5W-40 wasn't popular.

Did the auto industry and engine needs "evolve" a lot in that time?

Surely.

Are these two engines are more different than I'm guessing they are?

For certain.
.

 

[ultraviolet]

My 2012 Fiat Abarth manual specified 5w40, my 2022 Honda Civic SI manual specifies 0w20. The engines are almost the same displacement, 1.4 vs 1.5, and they're both turbocharged. The Fiat Abarth was port injected while the Honda SI is direct injected, so there's that.

Why the (seemingly) very different oil specifications? Is it the decade between the two cars that's the difference? Did the auto industry and engine needs "evolve" a lot in that time? Are these two engines are more different than I'm guessing they are?

The Fiat engine seemed to really like the 5w40, going strong at 70,000 miles when I got rid of it.

Thanks.

the 0w20 is spec'd because it can net a slight improvement in fuel economy, and that's a top priority for manufacturers these days. no competent engineer is going to spec 0w20 for a turbo, performance engine if they're legitimately aiming to maximise durability. unfortunately, i'm quite sure the corporate decision-makers at honda are much more concerned with getting every last .01mpg they can, than they are with the engine's durability once out of warranty.

personally, i would suggest 0w40 or 5w40 for the vast majority of engines, and especially for a turbo motor like that. as you say, the fiat engine seemed to really like it, this is because a 40 oil offers far more protection than a 20 or even a 30. that said, i do always fret a bit about how the cam phasers, lifters, etc. in modern engines will react to an oil that much thicker, so if you're concerned with going up a solid 2 grades in operating viscosity, 0w30 would be a reasonable step in the right direction.

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

the 0w20 is spec'd because it can net a slight improvement in fuel economy, and that's a top priority for manufacturers these days. no competent engineer is going to spec 0w20 for a turbo, performance engine if they're legitimately aiming to maximise durability. unfortunately, i'm quite sure the corporate decision-makers at honda are much more concerned with getting every last .01mpg they can, than they are with the engine's durability once out of warranty.

personally, i would suggest 0w40 or 5w40 for the vast majority of engines, and especially for a turbo motor like that. as you say, the fiat engine seemed to really like it, this is because a 40 oil offers far more protection than a 20 or even a 30. that said, i do always fret a bit about how the cam phasers, lifters, etc. in modern engines will react to an oil that much thicker, so if you're concerned with going up a solid 2 grades in operating viscosity, 0w30 would be a reasonable step in the right direction.

Can you make another user ID to tell us the cool story about Honda not caring about your car once it's out of warranty?

 

[ultraviolet]

Can you make another user ID to tell us the cool story about Honda not caring about your car once it's out of warranty?

i'm not sure what you're trying to imply there, but i have no issue with honda. every manufacturer has shifted in that direction with how stringent fuel economy requirements have become. they'd much rather spec an oil that allows them to claim even one extra mpg, so long as it makes it through the warranty period, than spec an oil that will protect the engine optimally at the expense of that mpg number. the same priority is why basically every new car looks like it was designed in a wind tunnel to get the Cd as low as possible, rather than styled by anyone with the slightest creative spirit... it's because that's exactly how cars are designed now. things like aesthetics and engine durability are cast by the wayside in favour of mpg numbers and crash safety. the ironic thing about the crash safety aspect is that those safety features make cars heavier and bulkier which... fancy that, reduces mpg. it's all a bit of a sorry state of affairs.

 

[JXW]

i'm not sure what you're trying to imply there, but i have no issue with honda. every manufacturer has shifted in that direction with how stringent fuel economy requirements have become. they'd much rather spec an oil that allows them to claim even one extra mpg, so long as it makes it through the warranty period, than spec an oil that will protect the engine optimally at the expense of that mpg number. the same priority is why basically every new car looks like it was designed in a wind tunnel to get the Cd as low as possible, rather than styled by anyone with the slightest creative spirit... it's because that's exactly how cars are designed now. things like aesthetics and engine durability are cast by the wayside in favour of mpg numbers and crash safety. the ironic thing about the crash safety aspect is that those safety features make cars heavier and bulkier which... fancy that, reduces mpg. it's all a bit of a sorry state of affairs.

The USA created CAFE laws for OEM to meet MPG requirements over time. If you research this you can see that every so many years the avg MPG has to be increased from the prior period. The penalty for not meeting the avg standards for CAFE is financial or fines. The OEMS are being regulated into oil choices via CAFE IMO. Hybrid motors, stop/start, cylinder deactivation, hydrogen, electric the list goes on.

Personally, I run 5w-40 in my BMW N20. After some intervals with LL-17Fe and whatever the dealer decided to put in at the time of svc I decided to make my stand.

OEM's certify for CAFE. Dealers do not care about CAFE because it does not effect them. The OEM certification with the Gov't and agreed MPG ratings are where the focus is for the bean counters.

I have not change whatsoever in MPG over 20,000 miles with 5w-40. My choice was Ravenol VST. In my experience, high quality PAO or Ester based motor oils deliver the best of MPG and performance (cold and hot) in motorbikes and also cars and trucks. CAFE in the USA is very real and I believe has set some very high avg MPG standards for the future years to come to push away from emissions (global warming) and fossil fuels (cost of petroleum).

 

[mightymousetech]

I put Euro 5W40 in everything.

 

[kschachn]

Can you make another user ID to tell us the cool story about Honda not caring about your car once it's out of warranty?

And never with any data to back up the claim, just the cynical accusations.

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

i'm not sure what you're trying to imply there, but i have no issue with honda. every manufacturer has shifted in that direction with how stringent fuel economy requirements have become.

Yeah, like 23 years ago. Is this really such controversial new news to you?

 

[Hoover]

Maybe I'm missing something but what is the connection between a Honda engine and a Fiat engine ?

Just an honest question that I felt was a good one for the Bob is the Oil Guy crowd (I.e. people who think about, know about and talk about oil). My post was really two questions that depended on each other.

One question was whether all small turbocharged engines can be viewed as pretty much the same then why such different oil specifications?

But... if on the other hand if it's true that the Fiat Abarth MultiAir 1.4 turbo engine is a whole different animal from the 2022 Honda Civic SI 1.5 turbo engine, then I guess it makes sense for the oil spec to be different. But still, why is it different?

The purpose of all this is deciding which oil to put into my new Honda SI. It was just that the 5w40 oil spec for my previous small turbo car made me wonder about the 0w20 oil spec for my new small turbo car.

Without this difference I probably would have just followed the Honda spec without question.

 

[Hoover]

anything newer gets a thinner recommended oil, better or likely NOT. manufacturers only want things to last until warranty is out, then its your $$$$$. Lifetime is similar, until your warranty is out!!!

That's what I was wondering.

The reason I was thinking in that direction was from a similar experience with my Fiat Abarth. Fiat claimed that the gearbox oil factory fill was a "lifetime of the vehicle" thing. About 50,000 miles into my Abarth the gearbox shifting got noticably notchy, the gearbox was making more gear whine while decelerating and it generally didn't feel as good. There were other Abarth owners on the forum saying similar things. So I did a drain and fill on the gearbox oil and the result was great, the gearbox felt new again (I had begun to worry that there was a problem with the shift linkage, but after the gearbox oil change things were back to all good).

So this experience has made me willing to doubt things that the vehicle manufacturers say, especially about something like oil.

That's why I came back to Bob is the Oil Guy after being away for years. Wondering what the forum's thinking was on whether running 0w20 was the right thing for a small turbo engine.

 

[Drew7a]

Two different manufacturers having different requirements for different spec products.
Your comparison is like asking why a Chevy 2.5 liter specs different oil than a VW 2.5 liter.
Hey, they're both 2.5 liters! So one manufacturer MUST be wrong.

How about a comparison using a single manufacturer?

1999 Honda Odyssey 5w-30 (3.5l)
2008 Honda Odyssey 5w-20 (3.5l)
2016 Honda Odyssey 0w-20 (3.5l)

Which year did this manufacturer provide the correct recommendation?

 

[Hoover]

the 0w20 is spec'd because it can net a slight improvement in fuel economy, and that's a top priority for manufacturers these days. no competent engineer is going to spec 0w20 for a turbo, performance engine if they're legitimately aiming to maximise durability. unfortunately, i'm quite sure the corporate decision-makers at honda are much more concerned with getting every last .01mpg they can, than they are with the engine's durability once out of warranty.

personally, i would suggest 0w40 or 5w40 for the vast majority of engines, and especially for a turbo motor like that. as you say, the fiat engine seemed to really like it, this is because a 40 oil offers far more protection than a 20 or even a 30. that said, i do always fret a bit about how the cam phasers, lifters, etc. in modern engines will react to an oil that much thicker, so if you're concerned with going up a solid 2 grades in operating viscosity, 0w30 would be a reasonable step in the right direction.

Thanks, that's the sort of thought and analysis I was looking for, it helps. Been away from Bob is the Oil Guy for a while, getting my new Honda Civic SI brought me back.

 

[Hoover]

How about a comparison using a single manufacturer?

1999 Honda Odyssey 5w-30 (3.5l)
2008 Honda Odyssey 5w-20 (3.5l)
2016 Honda Odyssey 0w-20 (3.5l)

Which year did this manufacturer provide the correct recommendation?

Thanks, that's actually closer to the question I was trying to ask.