Who makes a fluid for 8 speed Ram 1500?

[4WD]

Not correct analogy. ZF8 charges actual product. Whether that product is worth $27 or not is irrelevant in the case you are making.
GM is charging license. GM is taking part of price of each sold product. ZF is not doing that. Whatever product BMW, Audi, FCA etc. approve for use in their ZF transmissions, there is no license cost. There is approval cost as every test costs money, and it is really not that expensive. When Valvoline states that Maxlife meets and exceeds or whatever language they use, reason is that it is "one size fits all" fluid, and probably cannot be approved by BMW, FCA etc. as they have their own specific demands.
Ford as far as I know charges fluid for their ZF applications in some countries way cheaper than what ZF charges their fluid, and it is approved by Ford and ZF. That is not again how GM does business.

Says a guy who would

Not correct analogy. ZF8 charges actual product. Whether that product is worth $27 or not is irrelevant in the case you are making.
GM is charging license. GM is taking part of price of each sold product. ZF is not doing that. Whatever product BMW, Audi, FCA etc. approve for use in their ZF transmissions, there is no license cost. There is approval cost as every test costs money, and it is really not that expensive. When Valvoline states that Maxlife meets and exceeds or whatever language they use, reason is that it is "one size fits all" fluid, and probably cannot be approved by BMW, FCA etc. as they have their own specific demands.
Ford as far as I know charges fluid for their ZF applications in some countries way cheaper than what ZF charges their fluid, and it is approved by Ford and ZF. That is not again how GM does business.

 

[4WD]

Not correct analogy. ZF8 charges actual product. Whether that product is worth $27 or not is irrelevant in the case you are making.
GM is charging license. GM is taking part of price of each sold product. ZF is not doing that. Whatever product BMW, Audi, FCA etc. approve for use in their ZF transmissions, there is no license cost. There is approval cost as every test costs money, and it is really not that expensive. When Valvoline states that Maxlife meets and exceeds or whatever language they use, reason is that it is "one size fits all" fluid, and probably cannot be approved by BMW, FCA etc. as they have their own specific demands.
Ford as far as I know charges fluid for their ZF applications in some countries way cheaper than what ZF charges their fluid, and it is approved by Ford and ZF. That is not again how GM does business.

… it’s not worth $27 … and I’m not in the MaxLife debate … I’m not doing that.
Found LG8 for $20 and not happy shopper … but I will live.
Worse is FCA thinking it deserves $40/quart for this ATF …
At least I found it for half of dealer price …

 

[JTK]

Nothing wrong with approvals … but I’m having trouble finding ZF8 approved ATF made by Castrol, Mobil, Pennzoil, or Valvoline ? Why is that ?

I think we're mixing up terminology.

I don't think we'll see aftermarket ATFs stating on their product data sheets or bottles that they're "approved" for ZF8 use. They'll likely say "suitable for use in" like Valvoline Maxlife ATF does.

I get people's hesitation here, but why / how would Valvoline open themselves up to the legalities associated with saying a fluid is suitable for your application if it wasn't. From a marketing standpoint they wouldn't even do it. Way too much at risk with the way things roll today.

 

[The Critic]

I think we're mixing up terminology.

I don't think we'll see aftermarket ATFs stating on their product data sheets or bottles that they're "approved" for ZF8 use. They'll likely say "suitable for use in" like Valvoline Maxlife ATF does.

I get people's hesitation here, but why / how would Valvoline open themselves up to the legalities associated with saying a fluid is suitable for your application if it wasn't. From a marketing standpoint they wouldn't even do it. Way too much at risk with the way things roll today.

But keep in mind that the burden of proof is on the consumer - it is very difficult for a consumer to prove Valvoline to be at fault.

From an OEM standpoint, they can initiate a roadblock by stating that a non-ZF fluid was in the transmission at time of failure. The average owner does not have the resources to overturn their position.

 

[demarpaint]

… it’s not worth $27 … and I’m not in the MaxLife debate … I’m not doing that.
Found LG8 for $20 and not happy shopper … but I will live.
Worse is FCA thinking it deserves $40/quart for this ATF …
At least I found it for half of dealer price …

Exactly! No one says you have to pay full pop at the dealer. A savvy shopper can certainly save a few $$ shopping around.

 

[The Critic]

… it’s not worth $27 … and I’m not in the MaxLife debate … I’m not doing that.
Found LG8 for $20 and not happy shopper … but I will live.
Worse is FCA thinking it deserves $40/quart for this ATF …
At least I found it for half of dealer price …

Exactly! No one says you have to pay full pop at the dealer. A savvy shopper can certainly save a few $$ shopping around.

Be careful - there are two different ZF fluids - Lifeguard 8 and Lifeguard 9. The FCA version says "8 and 9-speed." I am guessing that FCA is rebottling the Lifeguard 9 and not the 8, but I am not certain.

 

[demarpaint]

Be careful - there are two different ZF fluids - Lifeguard 8 and Lifeguard 9. The FCA version says "8 and 9-speed." I am guessing that FCA is rebottling the Lifeguard 9 and not the 8, but I am not certain.

Good point, I would be buying the fluid my transmission called for. My point was there's nothing wrong with shopping around for the fluid in question here.

 

[The Critic]

Good point, I would be buying the fluid my transmission called for. My point was there's nothing wrong with shopping around for the fluid in question here.

Agreed, but which one is the correct one?

 

[4WD]

I think we're mixing up terminology.

I don't think we'll see aftermarket ATFs stating on their product data sheets or bottles that they're "approved" for ZF8 use. They'll likely say "suitable for use in" like Valvoline Maxlife ATF does.

I get people's hesitation here, but why / how would Valvoline open themselves up to the legalities associated with saying a fluid is suitable for your application if it wasn't. From a marketing standpoint they wouldn't even do it. Way too much at risk with the way things roll today.

I’m not mixed up at all … semantics aside there is something wrong when you don’t have more PVL competition
is this a business model we’d want to see for motor oil …?

 

[edyvw]

… it’s not worth $27 … and I’m not in the MaxLife debate … I’m not doing that.
Found LG8 for $20 and not happy shopper … but I will live.
Worse is FCA thinking it deserves $40/quart for this ATF …
At least I found it for half of dealer price …

Point is, ZF is not getting cut out of that $40 bottle. GM would take a cut.

 

[4WD]

Be careful - there are two different ZF fluids - Lifeguard 8 and Lifeguard 9. The FCA version says "8 and 9-speed." I am guessing that FCA is rebottling the Lifeguard 9 and not the 8, but I am not certain.

I bought ZF LG8 … nowhere near ready to use it … just spotted it for $20 and ordered

 

[edyvw]

Be careful - there are two different ZF fluids - Lifeguard 8 and Lifeguard 9. The FCA version says "8 and 9-speed." I am guessing that FCA is rebottling the Lifeguard 9 and not the 8, but I am not certain.

Not necessarily. Esso supplies VW with fluid for Aisin transmissions. Toyota uses XOM as supplier.

 

[4WD]

Point is, ZF is not getting cut out of that $40 bottle. GM would take a cut.

Ok fine but I got OEM ACD for $20/gallon so go figure …

 

[Scuder]

Nothing wrong with approvals … but I’m having trouble finding ZF8 approved ATF made by Castrol, Mobil, Pennzoil, or Valvoline ? Why is that ?

There's no margin in it. We're talking about a very low volume product. When most non-Bitogers see "lifetime fluid" from their OEM, they take it at face value.
By the time a lube company has invested in R&D to come up with a fluid that will pass licensing ZF requirements, then it goes through the licensing process itself. Who knows how many roadblocks, intentional or not, exist there? They produce a batch, package it, warehouse it, ship it, market it, all for what? Where is the money to be made? There's no rationale in producing and marketing a product meant to replace what is perceived by the great majority of the public to be a lifetime fluid.
If Shell is making the majority of the OEM ZF fluid, why are they not selling it under one of their own brands? Either they have deals with ZF, Audi, BMW, FCA, et al to not compete with them, or there's just no margin there.
As far as Valvoline saying "also recommended for," they have little liability exposure. If a ZF or two is proven to be damaged by Max Life, they'll just pay for the repairs. The responsibility for this proof lies on the damaged party. Just cheaper to pay for repairs. If there were a rash of failures, which the OP has stated he believe hasn't happened, you'd see that recommendation disappear quickly.

 

[demarpaint]

Agreed, but which one is the correct one?

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Good question, off the top of my head I'd probably go with the Mopar version, but first do my homework so I was 100% sure and shop whatever fluid makes my final cut. I'd reach out to a friend or two in Jeep dealerships about the fluid. No way would Maxlife be going in, especially after seeing the mix up you posted here..

 

[The Critic]

I bought ZF LG8 … nowhere near ready to use it … just spotted it for $20 and ordered

But are you sure LG8 is the correct fluid, and not LG9? Mopar's bottle says "for 8 and 9-speeds."

 

[4WD]

I think we have reached the point where folks think they understand a business model/relationship but nobody here really does. BTW … Mobil 1 makes a Dexron ATF that GM can call lifetime - because they can …
1st edition PAO mix and now 2nd round GTL … $12 …

 

[nthach]

Agreed, but which one is the correct one?

And it’s more confusing with this:

Notice the omission of of the Chrysler oil p/n under the last table row/column. It seems like BMW and Mopar think Lifeguard 8 works fine in their applications. ZF did have a Lifeguard 6+ for the newer 6HP variants. But that seems to be superseded by LG8.

 

[Grand cherokee hemi]

It is not hot and divisive topic. Most members know here how things are done in industry. You are reinventing wheel here and stumbling as you go. You might read carefully here as some members here worked actually on blending, testing and approval process, so I would not characterize that as "opinions."

I meant a "hot" topic based on the posts which show a divided opinion on whether or not people would use a different fluid...

 

[Scuder]

I think we have reached the point where folks think they understand a business model/relationship but nobody here really does. BTW … Mobil 1 makes a Dexron ATF that GM can call lifetime - because they can …
1st edition PAO mix and now 2nd round GTL … $12 …

You're right. I normally avoid speculating on this board.

By responding to your question, I didn't mean to sound like I was lecturing you. If it seemed so, I apologize. Rather, your question got right to the crux of the matter. I thought I could help everyone by writing about things in which I had personal experience or first hand knowledge in seemingly parallel situations. One that immediately comes to mind is the introduction of Honda specific power steering fluid. When I asked why we did not have a suitable product to sell, I was told by a member of senior management all those reasons I outlined in my post. Back in the day, lowly sales reps had regular occasion to speak with those who made the final decisions. Other situations I recall have similar earmarks to that of the ZF fluids.