Who makes a fluid for 8 speed Ram 1500?

[Grand cherokee hemi]

The language states it was "developed" for 8HP and some other transmission types. It says nothing about ZF blending their own fluids.

For example, GM works with Afton chemical company to develop formulations and DI additive packages for GM's ATF's and then PetroCanada gets the first crack at being the primary Blending facility.

Once the specifications are let then others can blend the ATF. To get on GM's approval list for the specific fluid, the Blenders have to have the fluid tested according to GM's testing protocols.

That is how things are done in this industry.

I think we're getting hung up on the "actually blends it themselves". If a company develops a specific product with a specific blend of ingredients and then gets a patent on that blend/product... its irrelevant who they contract to mass produce it. If prego makes a spaghetti sauce and then hires a Chinese company to produce it following there exact specifications... it doesn't mean its not that its no prego sauce. If they allow someone else to use/produce there patented formula and sell it as a re-branded name for a licensing fee or perhaps royalty... its still there product. Regardless of where its produced, the US, CANADA, CHINA, MEXICO, GERMANY, its a patented ZF product.

 

[demarpaint]

Here's the rub at least the way I see it. Questions pop up regarding Maxlife. How does a concerned consumer know for certain Valvoline tested the product and the transmission performs exactly the way transmission maker intended it to, and the warranty would remain intact for the ZF8 with Maxlife in it? Take Valvoline's word for it? No thanks.

These one size fits all universal ATFs scare me to be honest. I used Maxlife with good results in my 2000 Century, however there is no way it would go into either of my Jeeps calling for ATF+4, and on their list they mention it being good for the NAG1. Does that mean AFT+4 will work in the ZF8? I sure as hell wouldn't try it. There is no way that it can perform flawlessly the way the transmission makers from Ford, GM, Chrysler, Honda, Toyota, etc. expect their transmissions to perform, and keep their warranties intact. But if a person feels confident in the product, go for it. At the moment the jury is still out for me, especially with the cost of possibly replacing a ZF8 if things go bad. I'm here to learn, so things might change for me one day.

 

[Grand cherokee hemi]

Here's the rub at least the way I see it. Questions pop up regarding Maxlife. How does a concerned consumer know for certain Valvoline tested the product and the transmission performs exactly the way transmission maker intended it to, and the warranty would remain intact for the ZF8 with Maxlife in it? Take Valvoline's word for it? No thanks.

These one size fits all universal ATFs scare me to be honest. I used Maxlife with good results in my 2000 Century, however there is no way it would go into either of my Jeeps calling for ATF+4, and on their list they mention it being good for the NAG1. Does that mean AFT+4 will work in the ZF8? I sure as hell wouldn't try it. There is no way that it can perform flawlessly the way the transmission makers from Ford, GM, Chrysler, Honda, Toyota, etc. expect their transmissions to perform, and keep their warranties intact. But if a person feels confident in the product, go for it. At the moment the jury is still out for me, especially with the cost of possibly replacing a ZF8 if things go bad. I'm here to learn, so things might change for me one day.

I agree 100% about the warranty side of things... lifegaurd 8 AKA mopar 8&9 has a good enough record/reputation to be worry free for 100,000 km. Beside that there is the obvious "why would you mesh with something thats covered anyway". I think for most people the question becomes when my power train warranty ends (for most people 5 years... for others possibly 7 or 8) whats my best course of action? It is true that the average consumer keeps there vehicle for less time than 10 or 20 years ago. For those people is a change worth it? Probably not, I certainly wouldn't bother if I planned on getting rid of my vehicle shortly after my warranty expired. To add to the confusion you have FCA saying "lifetime" and ZF saying change at 100,000km. For me it boiled down to simply the overwhelming amount of information. Trust me when I tell you I spent ALOT of time researching this before deciding to change my fluid. The recurring theme across multiple forums from hundreds of people was they used valvoline with no problems. The sheer amount of use in these transmissions ranging from BMW sports cars, to diesel trucks towing on a daily basis. Many of testimonials having 100,000 km + since changing. Does this have something to do with the fact the valvoline is the cheapest alternative?... probably. On the other side of the fence I have yet to find a report claiming that someone switched to valvoline and ended up with a failure. HONESTLY I invite anyone to browse the forums... the reports from happy switchers HUNDREDS... the reports of unhappy switchers VERY RARE. For me this, coupled with the fact that ZF is going to be biased (for obvious reasons) toward its own product was enough. Of course there's also the fact that Valvoline, Amsoil, red line, pentosin, motul, and several others are all extremely reputable companies that no doubt employ some of the best in the business. Is it likely that ALL these companies would knowingly decieve customers and make claims without researching/testing first. They sell products based on there reputation and if there fluids start destroying trannys it doesn't help business. When you look at all these factors the only sensible conclusion is that yes valvoline can be used... there is just no (or very little) evidence to back up claims that using it is a bad idea. And a mountain of evidence that suggests using it is just fine. Now that I've written this I'm sure some people will dig hard and find a story here or there about someone using valvoline with catastrophic results. But like I said this topic is all over the web on RAM, JEEP, BMW, and several other forums with conversations dating back to 2010 for Audi,and all the way through for others. And the recurring consensus is "I use maxlife, works great.Its also all over youtube with dozens of videos from all over the world. These average Joe's have no reason to lie.

 

[demarpaint]

I agree 100% about the warranty side of things... lifegaurd 8 AKA mopar 8&9 has a good enough record/reputation to be worry free for 100,000 km. Beside that there is the obvious "why would you mesh with something thats covered anyway". I think for most people the question becomes when my power train warranty ends (for most people 5 years... for others possibly 7 or 8) whats my best course of action? It is true that the average consumer keeps there vehicle for less time than 10 or 20 years ago. For those people is a change worth it? Probably not, I certainly wouldn't bother if I planned on getting rid of my vehicle shortly after my warranty expired. To add to the confusion you have FCA saying "lifetime" and ZF saying change at 100,000km. For me it boiled down to simply the overwhelming amount of information. Trust me when I tell you I spent ALOT of time researching this before deciding to change my fluid. The recurring theme across multiple forums from hundreds of people was they used valvoline with no problems. The sheer amount of use in these transmissions ranging from BMW sports cars, to diesel trucks towing on a daily basis. Many of testimonials having 100,000 km + since changing. Does this have something to do with the fact the valvoline is the cheapest alternative?... probably. On the other side of the fence I have yet to find a report claiming that someone switched to valvoline and ended up with a failure. HONESTLY I invite anyone to browse the forums... the reports from happy switchers HUNDREDS... the reports of unhappy switchers VERY RARE. For me this, coupled with the fact that ZF is going to be biased (for obvious reasons) toward its own product was enough. Of course there's also the fact that Valvoline, Amsoil, red line, pentosin, motul, and several others are all extremely reputable companies that no doubt employ some of the best in the business. Is it likely that ALL these companies would knowingly decieve customers and make claims without researching/testing first. They sell products based on there reputation and if there fluids start destroying trannys it doesn't help business. When you look at all these factors the only sensible conclusion is that yes valvoline can be used... there is just no (or very little) evidence to back up claims that using it is a bad idea. And a mountain of evidence that suggests using it is just fine. Now that I've written this I'm sure some people will dig hard and find a story here or there about someone using valvoline with catastrophic results. But like I said this topic is all over the web on RAM, JEEP, BMW, and several other forums with conversations dating back to 2010 for Audi,and all the way through for others. And the recurring consensus is "I use maxlife, works great.Its also all over youtube with dozens of videos from all over the world. These average Joe's have no reason to lie.

At this point I don't own anything with a ZF8 speed, however the likelihood of me owning one in the near future is pretty high. Threads like this peek my interest and I consider it part of my early homework. I'm still not convinced Maxlife is the best bet for the unit, time might change that. I have a hard time believing one fluid can be the perfect fit for so many different automakers.

Regarding using the fluid once the warranty is up, if it really isn't the best bet for the transmission and the unit does fail they're big bucks to replace. I also have my doubts about how many so called "transmission re-builders" are qualified or capable of doing a good job rebuilding one, which poses a whole new set of issues. There are a lot of hacks out there, getting a botched rebuilt transmission can be very upsetting. For another couple of hundred dollars over the period of owning a $40-$60K [or more] vehicle the peace of mind is still worth it to me being 100% certain I have the right fluid in the unit. Having said that, I would roll the dice on the Dorman pan, once out of warranty. Either way if you're confident in your decision that's all that matters.

 

[Sierra048]

I’m not a fan of MaxLifing all the things. Especially European gearboxes. ZFs aren’t exactly cheap to rebuild or source a reman either.

Not related, I used MaxLife in a Frontier, owner didn’t like the shift feel - back to Matic-S it went.

I replaced the Nissan factory filled ATF (Nissan Matic S) three years ago with Maxlife ATF. Just did a drain and fill yesterday as maintenance. I've never noticed any difference from the day I drove it off the dealer's lot in the transmission's performance. I did the same thing for our prior owned Nissan Xterra and Toyota Tundra with the same results.

 

[Grand cherokee hemi]

At this point I don't own anything with a ZF8 speed, however the likelihood of me owning one in the near future is pretty high. Threads like this peek my interest and I consider it part of my early homework. I'm still not convinced Maxlife is the best bet for the unit, time might change that. I have a hard time believing one fluid can be the perfect fit for so many different automakers.

Regarding using the fluid once the warranty is up, if it really isn't the best bet for the transmission and the unit does fail they're big bucks to replace. I also have my doubts about how many so called "transmission re-builders" are qualified or capable of doing a good job rebuilding one, which poses a whole new set of issues. There are a lot of hacks out there, getting a botched rebuilt transmission can be very upsetting. For another couple of hundred dollars over the period of owning a $40-$60K [or more] vehicle the peace of mind is still worth it to me being 100% certain I have the right fluid in the unit. Having said that, I would roll the dice on the Dorman pan, once out of warranty. Either way if you're confident in your decision that's all that matters.

I used the dorman pan... had a nice thick gaskets and 4 magnets... fit perfect.

 

[4WD]

At this point I don't own anything with a ZF8 speed, however the likelihood of me owning one in the near future is pretty high. Threads like this peek my interest and I consider it part of my early homework. I'm still not convinced Maxlife is the best bet for the unit, time might change that. I have a hard time believing one fluid can be the perfect fit for so many different automakers.

Regarding using the fluid once the warranty is up, if it really isn't the best bet for the transmission and the unit does fail they're big bucks to replace. I also have my doubts about how many so called "transmission re-builders" are qualified or capable of doing a good job rebuilding one, which poses a whole new set of issues. There are a lot of hacks out there, getting a botched rebuilt transmission can be very upsetting. For another couple of hundred dollars over the period of owning a $40-$60K [or more] vehicle the peace of mind is still worth it to me being 100% certain I have the right fluid in the unit. Having said that, I would roll the dice on the Dorman pan, once out of warranty. Either way if you're confident in your decision that's all that matters.

It would not be this hard if the companies were not price gouging and using other predatory business practices.
I find it amazing that folks come on here (some that defend ZF) and criticize GM as pay for play.
How many companies have a Dexron license? I lost track !
They are nothing compared to what ZF and FCA/Mopar are pulling here … and BTW, why is the Mopar ATF way more expensive than even ZF ? It makes Redline look cheap

 

[Grand cherokee hemi]

It would not be this hard if the companies were not price gouging and using other predatory business practices.
I find it amazing that folks come on here (some that defend ZF) and criticize GM as pay for play.
How many companies have a Dexron license? I lost track !
They are nothing compared to what ZF and FCA/Mopar are pulling here … and BTW, why is the Mopar ATF more way expensive than even ZF ? It makes Redline look cheap

The almighty $$$... the BMW fluid is $90 quart..lol

 

[demarpaint]

It would not be this hard if the companies were not price gouging and using other predatory business practices.
I find it amazing that folks come on here (some that defend ZF) and criticize GM as pay for play.
How many companies have a Dexron license? I lost track !
They are nothing compared to what ZF and FCA/Mopar are pulling here … and BTW, why is the Mopar ATF more way expensive than even ZF ? It makes Redline look cheap

I agree, the automotive industry as a whole is a ripoff, from the time you buy a car, right down to something as simple as buying oil and filters to maintain it.

Sad when you think about it, but it's business and everyone is out to make a buck, or save a buck. There are however some instances where trying to save a buck can become very costly.

 

[4WD]

The almighty $$$... the BMW fluid is $90 quart..lol

Nothing wrong with approvals … but I’m having trouble finding ZF8 approved ATF made by Castrol, Mobil, Pennzoil, or Valvoline ? Why is that ?

 

[4WD]

The almighty $$$... the BMW fluid is $90 quart..lol

Sad … a few months back I bought a gallon jug of AC Delco Dex VI synthetic for $20 … free shipping …

 

[Grand cherokee hemi]

Nothing wrong with approvals … but I’m having trouble finding ZF8 approved ATF made by Castrol, Mobil, Pennzoil, or Valvoline ? Why is that ?

Because none of those companies are willing to pay ZF the licensing fee... so why would ZF endorse another fluid when they make there own

 

[4WD]

Because none of those companies are willing to pay ZF the licensing fee... so why would ZF endorse another fluid when they make there own

They “market their own” which in business means they go out to contract a PVL for an oil company to produce.
Same as Mopar. So that part already exists inside a tightly controlled bubble. I know of no bigger rip off in mainstream fluids required for PM …

 

[Grand cherokee hemi]

They “market their own” which in business means they go out to contract a PVL for an oil company to produce.
Same as Mopar. So that part already exists inside a tightly controlled bubble. I know of no bigger rip off in mainstream fluids required for PM …

All the fluids on the "approved list" from ZF called TE-ML 11 are lifegaurd 8 fluid. There just rebranded and sold by mopar, BMW, land rover...ect. Anyone who uses ZF transmissions and has a relationship with ZF (worth millions). They all use the patented zf lifeguard 8 fluid (or there own fluid produced to the patented specs).

 

[4WD]

All the fluids on the "approved list" from ZF called TE-ML 11 are lifegaurd 8 fluid. There just rebranded and sold by mopar, BMW, land rover...ect. Anyone who uses ZF transmissions and has a relationship with ZF (worth millions). They all use the patented zf lifeguard 8 fluid (or there own fluid produced to the patented specs).

Which is nothing special regardless of how many times folks say it is … I looked at the SDS … no Grp4 or the typical things that justify the cost of boutique fluids …
In fact ZF calls it semi synthetic in the English sales document
So would be interested if it’s SHC in the German context?
The FM‘s are just customized for the ZF8

 

[Grand cherokee hemi]

Which is nothing special regardless of how many times folks say it is … I looked at the SDS … no Grp4 or the typical things that justify the cost of boutique fluids …

Ya I mean I accept the fact that the standard specs/data for fluids like below don't tell the whole story... there are additives, foaming agents, ect... but I also believe other major companies spend significant resources researching the same things.

 

[Grand cherokee hemi]

Wow... when I first posted in this thread (re-activating) this conversation, I had no idea it would attract so much attention. I would like to thank everyone who took the time to post on what is clearly still a hot and divisive topic. The opinions and information shared has provided perspective from both sides and demonstrates the benefits of forums such as these. I look forward to taking part in future threads if they're as dynamic and productive as this one was. Cheers everyone!!

 

[edyvw]

It would not be this hard if the companies were not price gouging and using other predatory business practices.
I find it amazing that folks come on here (some that defend ZF) and criticize GM as pay for play.
How many companies have a Dexron license? I lost track !
They are nothing compared to what ZF and FCA/Mopar are pulling here … and BTW, why is the Mopar ATF way more expensive than even ZF ? It makes Redline look cheap

Not correct analogy. ZF8 charges actual product. Whether that product is worth $27 or not is irrelevant in the case you are making.
GM is charging license. GM is taking part of price of each sold product. ZF is not doing that. Whatever product BMW, Audi, FCA etc. approve for use in their ZF transmissions, there is no license cost. There is approval cost as every test costs money, and it is really not that expensive. When Valvoline states that Maxlife meets and exceeds or whatever language they use, reason is that it is "one size fits all" fluid, and probably cannot be approved by BMW, FCA etc. as they have their own specific demands.
Ford as far as I know charges fluid for their ZF applications in some countries way cheaper than what ZF charges their fluid, and it is approved by Ford and ZF. That is not again how GM does business.

 

[edyvw]

Wow... when I first posted in this thread (re-activating) this conversation, I had no idea it would attract so much attention. I would like to thank everyone who took the time to post on what is clearly still a hot and divisive topic. The opinions and information shared has provided perspective from both sides and demonstrates the benefits of forums such as these. I look forward to taking part in future threads if they're as dynamic and productive as this one was. Cheers everyone!!

It is not hot and divisive topic. Most members know here how things are done in industry. You are reinventing wheel here and stumbling as you go. You might read carefully here as some members here worked actually on blending, testing and approval process, so I would not characterize that as "opinions."

 

[edyvw]

Lol..so i guess when a company formulates a fluid, tests it, fine tunes its specifications, and gets the patent on it.. it becomes not there product when they hire an outside facility to actually make it. If thats the case I guess every companies product made in China isn't actually that companies product

The shell product is called... m- L 12108 and its produced specifically for AUDI.

Shell makes products for a lot of ZF applications, including all BMW engine and gear fluids (as of now). ZF does not formulate fluids alone. They work closely with blenders that help them develop fluid they need. The expertise is in blending company!