White Car Care Q

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The sled is in need of her yearly polish & wax/seal. Just haven't gotten around to it. Later in the week the weather will clear.

What I have on hand:
  • Zymol & Griot's car wash concentrate.
  • Soft water
  • Clay (barely. Need a new bar).
  • Bosch 5" RO with Hook/Loop pad.
  • Surebuff micro-fiber pads (2)
  • Griot's machine polish #3.
  • Meguiars Mirror Glaze #7 Show Car Glaze.
  • NuFinish Liquid
  • Meguiars or Mother's Carnuba in a can (not sure which).

I usually wash, clay, polish with Griot's #3, then Nufinish and sometimes top with the carnuba. However more prep is needed because not all of the swirl marks/scratches are removed. #3 may be too light for this or I need to bear down harder, be more attentive, etc.

Recently (Aug) received a new hood that was painted to match the rest of the car due to an accident. I haven't polished nor applied anything to it. Wanted to give the paint time to cure and figured I'd deal with it in the Spring.

I keep her garaged. Not much 'depth' to a white car. It's like a big floor freezer, especially being a wagon. However, she does shine up nice and looks great for her age.

I used to use a sealant from a guy in a local Volvo club...astro-shield?, astroglaze, aeroglaze, I think IPD sells it. Something like that. Can't exactly recall the name. Much better shine than the NF, but I ran out of it. Lasted a long time and water beaded up like crazy with it.

I'm open to comments, suggestions and something else besides NF, but I'm not interested in spending $$$$, nor mail-ordering. What's recommended for a white car that I can obtain locally?

I'd take a photo of the paint, but it's cloudy outside and I don't have a good point source. When the Sun does appear, I'll post a shot.
 
•Meguiars Mirror Glaze #7 Show Car Glaze.
•NuFinish Liquid
•Meguiars or Mother's Carnuba in a can (not sure which).

Since you are already keeping it in the Meguiars family, you can use Ultimate Wax. However, I am currently having great success with Armor All Extreme Shield Wax and follow nearly the same products:

Meguiars #7
Armor Armor Extreme Shield Wax
Meguairs #26 Carnuaba
 
If that Bosch 5" is a sander, don't use it, you'll accomplish almost nothing with it and normal polishing pads. At that point going by hand will yield better results.

If you can spend just a little bit more money, even a cheap 6" "wax spreader" type buffer will work. They're not equivalent to each other, the polisher is made for polishing paint. The sander was made for polishing.

http://www.harborfreight.com/power-tools/polishers/6-inch-compact-palm-polisher-90219.html

That and a couple microfiber bonnets will get you started and polishing quite decently. And if you want to modify your wax spreader to use your microfiber pads, then you really can get professional results.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3359414/6%22_wax_spreader_mod#Post3359414

But a palm sander does not a paint polisher make.
 
I doubt those polishing pads were made for car paint. They're far too thin to really conform to curved painted panels and corners. You risk doing some pretty bad marring because of the pressure thin polishing pads will put on the paint.

And you don't know if the pads are meant for compounding, polishing, or finishing.

When it comes to paint, unless you know what you're using, you can do some severe damage quite quickly.
 
This is the stuff I used to use:
astro2.jpg
 
Update:
This evening I washed both the hood and top with soft water & Zymol car wash, then rinsed. Then using the diluted car wash as a lube, clayed both surfaces. This removed quite a bit of embedded dirt, leaving the surface exceptionally smooth.

Back near the tailgate, I decided to try an experiment comparing the Meguiars polish vs. Griots #3 vs. NuFinish. I did an area for each about 4" square, using a 100% cotton round pad. I rubbed in straight lines, then across at 90° until the material dried. Then I buffed it off with an old 100% cotton t-shirt.

G#3 came off the easiest and removed the finest scratches. Meguiars polish was tougher to completely remove as it contains silicones, wax and maybe some oil. It left a very smooth, buttery finish (if that makes any sense). I think it filled in more than removed any fine scratches. Being a polish, I didn't expect much 'removal'.

Nufinish left a very shiny, smooth surface. May have filled in very fine scratches. Definitely added shine.

Here's some photos taken in the garage with a MR22 as a 'spot' light source. Due to the position of the car, and the other stuff on the floor, I wasn't able to get the best angles.
IMG_7463_zpscd08908c.jpg


IMG_7464_zps60c5cb1f.jpg


IMG_7465_zps83351848.jpg

The above three are all of the same area, after simply cleaning & claying. None of the above polishes were used. I was playing with the focus and exposure to get the best (worst) shot.

The two following shots show the weatherstrip between the tailgate and the top, at the very back. These aren't forward enough to indicate the effectiveness of the polish used, so I won't mention it here. Needless to say, I need a courser grit to remove these as the fine #3 is too fine.
IMG_7466_zps3d0d291b.jpg


IMG_7467_zpsc44a8367.jpg


I'm guessing Meg UC might really help here?

I also found the can of carnuba: It's Meguiars as well. Not 100% carnuba as it also contains silicone(!).

Given this is a white car, with very little (if any) depth, perhaps a 'wet-look' finish would be appropriate here. Any recommendations?
 
By hand about the only thing that'll really make a dent is Ultimate Compound.

But if you could invest in a machine, I really recommend getting the wax spreader over doing the car by hand. Then you could take it down a notch and use Ultimate Polish. You'll get better results and remove less paint in the process. Afterwards wax it by hand and you'll be amazed what it can accomplish. Go slowly and polish using Ultimate Compound or Polish carefully and it's capable of just as good correction as the professional machines and compounds, it's just a little slower.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=202166&Number=3099907

I mean if you're willing to buy a couple Bosch Polishing pads made for a sander, there's no reason not to buy a $17 dedicated polisher and a couple microfiber bonnets. Although in your case perhaps a wool bonnet and Ultimate Compound might make sense, those swirls look pretty deep. Although if long term paint preservation is your goal and not paint perfection, Ultimate polish and a microfiber bonnet might get you decent enough results.

As far as silicones. Don't even be so concerned. On paint they're harmless. Unless you're running a paint shop, they'd be of no concern. They're a useful neutral carrier for most waxes and polishes. Chances are, go through an automatic car wash, or use pretty much any OTC paint product and it'll contain silicones and that's including Ultimate Compound and Polish. The silicones is what makes the polishes and waxes easier to use.
 
UC vs. UP. I'm guessing the later is less abrasive than the former. Other differences? I'm a bit confused with the definition of the terms.

I read your link. Very interesting. Didn't realize you could trust those things! Of course, in the right hands, with the right solutions, they appear to do wonders.

I'm not really interested in paint perfection. After all it is a 15yr old white wagon. A well-taken care of wagon though. I like her to look nice and keep her clean & in the garage. So I fall into the paint preservation group.

Since I've never used a DA polisher, can't compare to the Bosch 5" RO unit I have. I'm guessing the former has larger orbits? I believe a neighbor has one. Perhaps I can borrow it for a test. I have seen the foam pads at HF last time I was in. Didn't realize they carry them.

Re: Silicones. Doesn't really bother me. I was just surprised to see silioxane + carnuba. I remembered years ago the ad touting "100% carnuba". I've got other things to worry about.

Thanks for the advice. Evidently white cars don't illicit much response on a car-care forum! I read back through about 12 pages for a bit of research.

Re: Wax. I read you don't like NuFinish...at all. I've been using it for years. Lasts longer than carnuba. I tried Griots "Best show wax" once, but found it to gummy for the warm, humidity down here, so they refunded my money. I've also read about 'insulator', duragloss, Klasse, and others. Not avail. locally though as far as I know. I was surprised to find a few Griots products at a local AAP.

What Meguiars wax would you recommend for a white car?

Thanks!
 
Color specific waxes doesn't matter hardly anything for a white car. Really since you don't need darkening waxes which tend to be loaded with beautifying oils don't last as long. You really should be going for maximum protection especially if you're choosing the paint preservation philosophy over show car perfection.

In that case I would say get a 6" random orbit polisher like above, a few microfiber bonnets and Meguiars Ultimate Polish and Ultimate Wax.

Wash and clay the car and if you don't feel like spending pretty much a whole day polishing you can always just use Ultimate Polish one panel at a time to get the panel to look nice and then wax it by hand with Ultimate Wax. That's all that really should be needed. You'll get a lot of improvement and will minimize the amount of paint removed.

When working with microfiber bonnets too it's a good idea to buy a wool bonnet. You may or may not use the wool for polishing depending on how much correction you're going for but wool bonnets act as a perfect cushion to go underneath microfiber bonnets. And don't bother with a 10" wax spreader polisher. They're so unwieldy and have the same motor as the 6" but spread over a larger pad and so end up doing less work than the 6" one which can concentrate what little power it has onto a small section of paint to get it polished quite well when using Meguiars Ultimate Polish. Also 10" polishers tend to really suck up your polish and waste it.

The reason why I don't like NuFinish isn't for the protection. It actually does provide decent protection, it's that it has very harsh abrasives. Any polish that can restore oxidized paint like NuFinish makes their claims with obviously is using quite aggressive abrasives. So if you're in the paint preservation camp there's no point using unnecessarily harsh abrasives.
 
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Those defects look pretty deep.

I am not familiar with the Bosch RO that you mentioned. I'll let qwertydude advise on that matter.

Here's my take -- in order to remove those defects, you'll probably need to do heavy correction. Probably Meguiars M101/wool or MF cutting disc heavy. Then you'll have to do at least one refining step, most likely two in order to get rid of the compounding haze.

It doesn't sound like you're interesting in making this look 80-90% perfect, so here's what I'd do. Polish the car with a DA using a medium polish like M205 or HD Adapt and a medium polishing or light cutting foam polishing pad. That should be enough to remove some of the defects and lessen the appearance of the deeper ones...while still leaving a passable finish for most people.

You're not going to get very far when correcting this one by hand.
 
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Those defects look pretty deep.

I am not familiar with the Bosch RO that you mentioned. I'll let qwertydude advise on that matter.

Here's my take -- in order to remove those defects, you'll probably need to do heavy correction. Probably Meguiars M101/wool or MF cutting disc heavy. Then you'll have to do at least one refining step, most likely two in order to get rid of the compounding haze.

It doesn't sound like you're interesting in making this look 80-90% perfect, so here's what I'd do. Polish the car with a DA using a medium polish like M205 or HD Adapt and a medium polishing or light cutting foam polishing pad. That should be enough to remove some of the defects and lessen the appearance of the deeper ones...while still leaving a passable finish for most people.

You're not going to get very far when correcting this one by hand.


Solid Advice from Critic.

Regarding the photos... some nasty stuff there.

You need a machine + cutting pads and a compound to start addressing those defects.

I'll keep preaching the same old mantra... HF D/A + Meg's UC and a cutting pad of your choice... you'll be happy. Minor investment; Good results.

Wax/ Sealant doesn't matter... just put some protection on it after your done. If you like NuFinish- Rock it. You don't have to go with the crowd.
 
Let me clarify my Q re: good wax for a white car. Where I'm coming from is an over-the-top-glossy wax that looks 'wet' on a dark car (and way overdone), might look great on a white car with no depth. It might help to compensate for the lack of depth. Does that make sense?

I went to three auto stores yesterday. Picked up a bottle of Meg UC and some pads. Cheapest price I saw on any mini-polisher was $30. You got quite a deal! I'll keep looking.

Time was limited last night, so I only worked on one 6" x 6" area with UC. I had some deep scratches on the top caused by 2M/70cm rig antenna. Applied by hand in circles until the UC dried, then wiped with a towel. Due to poor light (I didn't have the MR22 set up. Just covered 4' flour. fixture) I'll have to get her into the light for an evaluation.

Unfortunately the "ro polisher" one neighbor had was the last one I needed: Big Bertha 10" with handles on either side. A far cry from the PC DA I thought he had. Evidently he didn't have a clue what I was talking about. Oh well...I'll check with another one....

Re: NuFinish. I understand your comment. When doing all the prep work that most people don't want to do, the last thing you need are abrasives in the last step. It's an all-in-one product vs. a separate product for each step. Correct? Point taken.

I've read about your CD tests. I have a hard time accepting that a cured, 'kicked' (two-part resin + hardener), acrylic automotive paint is as soft as polycarbonate. I've used both acrylic & polycarb plastic in numerous router jigs. Acrylic is much harder, scratches less, but more brittle while polycarb is much softer, easily scratches, but will bend quite a bit.

Overtime the poly plates will be filled with scratches, just running them over wood. No grit involved. If car paint was this soft, it would never stand up to dirt, chips, sand from trucks, etc. The surface would be hazed over, particularly the front of the hood. Mine doesn't look like that. Even after 15yrs and 197kmi. Neither does the top. My clear-coat is scratched no doubt. However, it's not hazed over anywhere on the car. Nor does it look near as bad as one of my several router jigs.

I'll agree that not all auto paint is the same. The paint on my neighbors 07 black BMW appears 'brittle'. There are several deep scratches on the hood that go all the way to the primer. It also feels different. It's in much worse shape than my 15yr old sled. It's also true she doesn't care for it like I care for mine.
 
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Those defects look pretty deep.

I am not familiar with the Bosch RO that you mentioned. I'll let qwertydude advise on that matter.

Here's my take -- in order to remove those defects, you'll probably need to do heavy correction. Probably Meguiars M101/wool or MF cutting disc heavy. Then you'll have to do at least one refining step, most likely two in order to get rid of the compounding haze.

It doesn't sound like you're interesting in making this look 80-90% perfect, so here's what I'd do. Polish the car with a DA using a medium polish like M205 or HD Adapt and a medium polishing or light cutting foam polishing pad. That should be enough to remove some of the defects and lessen the appearance of the deeper ones...while still leaving a passable finish for most people.

You're not going to get very far when correcting this one by hand.


I bought some UC so I'll experiment with it. I'll see how far it gets me.
 
Originally Posted By: genynnc
Solid Advice from Critic.

Regarding the photos... some nasty stuff there.

You need a machine + cutting pads and a compound to start addressing those defects.

I'll keep preaching the same old mantra... HF D/A + Meg's UC and a cutting pad of your choice... you'll be happy. Minor investment; Good results.

Wax/ Sealant doesn't matter... just put some protection on it after your done. If you like NuFinish- Rock it. You don't have to go with the crowd.

Thanks. I may still get lucky finding a cheap polisher. We'll see. I'll post back when I have more time.
 
You are right, the $19.99 polishers are now at $35.99 :-( At that price, you might as well purchase real DA from HF (about $60) or PC or GG 6" ROP (about $120)
 
Update:
Good News! Turned out my neighbor has a FLEX DA! Picked up a couple of new pads at HF. Can't believe how lucky I am. Very nice machine.
 
Originally Posted By: sleddriver


Re: NuFinish. I understand your comment. When doing all the prep work that most people don't want to do, the last thing you need are abrasives in the last step. It's an all-in-one product vs. a separate product for each step. Correct? Point taken.

I've read about your CD tests. I have a hard time accepting that a cured, 'kicked' (two-part resin + hardener), acrylic automotive paint is as soft as polycarbonate. I've used both acrylic & polycarb plastic in numerous router jigs. Acrylic is much harder, scratches less, but more brittle while polycarb is much softer, easily scratches, but will bend quite a bit.




Material hardness and UV resistance are two entirely separate issues. And polycarbonate is actually a little harder than car paint, and you'd think being harder it would be more difficult to scratch, but the difference is car paint actually has more "give" to it so that even though it's softer it tends to show scratches less.

If you want to imagine it, consider car paint sort of like jello. Extremely soft but try to scratch it with a knife and it simply flexes under the knife. But Polycarbonate, any time anything with a surface microhardness greater than the polycarbonate it creates a sharp edge which is more visible. So this tends to make people think acrylic is harder but if you know bullet resistant plastics are made of polycarbonate.

The way most hardnesses are measured in engineering is in PSI to breakage. And polycarbonate is a stronger, and therefore harder plastic. But on a microscopic scale acrylic even though weaker and therefore "softer" than polycarbonate scratches less because of give but that makes it gummier when polishing.

Acrylic sheets are technically softer than polycarbonate. When you polish polycarbonate it doesn't tend to clog pads but polishing acrylic you'll get far more material removal.
 
Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Update:
Good News! Turned out my neighbor has a FLEX DA! Picked up a couple of new pads at HF. Can't believe how lucky I am. Very nice machine.


On the Flex 3401, plan on doing one refining step after UC with a foam pad and M205 or Ultimate Polish. You will need to apply moderate pressure and make slow passes during the cutting step.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsOFu-AzeUM

Do not be surprised if you leave slight buffer trails -- this is normal due to the forced-rotation nature of the Flex. The slight trails will clean up very easily during the finishing step.

Also, the Flex has a tendency to "walk" if you do not keep the pad perfectly flat.
 
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Update II:
Well I've now been at this for about 6 hours. Still haven't gotten to polish or wax! Not complaining...at all. It takes as much time as it takes.

Results of UC + Flex + cheap HF pads is amazing! The sled hasn't been this clean & white since it left the factory.

Since I didn't even wash the sides or tailgate last time, I began with a wash, rinse, clay, then Flex/UC, then dust removal. Doing one panel/door at a time. Unable to view the results in the Sun due to shade earlier. Now the Sun has heated up the roof and the swirls are greatly reduced. I redid one roof section to see if it would improve and it did. Still didn't completelyr remove them, but I'd say 95% are gone. (My shoulders are already tired....).

One interesting lesson with both machine & UC is that I could never achieve that consistent level of pressure, covereage and application by hand. I'd wear out. Yet even with the machine + pressure + going slow as TC recommended, I didn't damage the paint, nor leave any marks he mentioned might happen at all. None.

IOW: If I can't screw up using a machine, I could never screw up doing this by hand. "Abrasive" to me, means far more than what I've been using. Then again, I'm used to "true grit" as in sandpaper for woodworking. Not at all used to the fine, rarified air of 4000+ grits (wild guess).

I'll take some photos and post later. I'm sure going to enjoy grilled steak, a pineapple margarita and a salad tonight to toast my success.

Thanks to all for advice and to my good neighbor for use of his FLEX DA.
 
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