When to do first oil change on a new engine

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: Brian Barnhart
I like to change mine out early. The pics below illustrate how much additional iron can be present in a new engine. First photo is of the magnetic drain plug at first oil change (less than 1K miles). Second photo is same engine and drain plug years later after a 4K OCI.


i'm surprised. what car did it came from? modern cars don't ship with magnetic engine oil drains anymore.

 

[TC280rem]

Wife and I just purchased a new Corolla for her.I plan on doing the first oil change around 2,000 miles then again at the 5,000 mile mark.Plan on doing the oil changes every 5k,little leary about the 10k oci Toyota recommends .we have the 2yr/25k included maintanence so I'll let Toyota do the 10 an 20k changes.may put this one on the Pennzoil Ultra Platinum diet with oem filter

 

[ExMachina]

Originally Posted By: JerryBob
This implies that those iron particles would otherwise be circulating through your engine unless you have a magnetic drain plug, and change the oil early.

I don't think that's really the case, though. Those particles would be caught by the filter.

You can safely rely on the owner's manual.


Oil filters don't get iron dust out below about 20 microns particle size. Oil films can get to near zero thickness on cams, rings at TDC, wrist pins, you know, where not hydrodynamic all the time.
Therefore, change out the factory fill at about 1,000 miles and be done with it. Most of the new engine dust inside will be gone that way.

 

[camrydriver111]

Do it at 100 mi, 200 mi, 300 mi, 500 mi, 1000 mi, 2000 mi.

I can understand why people might want to do it early, but I feel some might be overdoing it.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Unless the manual explicitly says NOT to do so, I change the initial fill of oil and filter at about 500 to 1000 miles. Not necessary (rental car fleets never do it), but there's always a little bit of manufacturing debris in the filter, and getting it all out gives me some peace of mind.

I am at the opposite of your thinking. To me, unless the owner manual explicitly says to change early such as 1k or 2k miles, I change the factory fill at normal interval. I had normal OCI for all my cars, actually the E430 passed the recommended oil change by several hundreds miles.

 

[fpracha]

Originally Posted By: Brian Barnhart
I like to change mine out early. The pics below illustrate how much additional iron can be present in a new engine. First photo is of the magnetic drain plug at first oil change (less than 1K miles). Second photo is same engine and drain plug years later after a 4K OCI.

Excellent illustrations Brian, thank you
But do you think the Oil Filter will allow the initial machining debris to pass through from oil pan into the engine ?

all comments welcome.

 

[SteveSRT8]

No proven benefits to changing early. Just like "big" oil filters or magic synthetic oils, early oil changes don't seem to do anything but allow owners to feel good about their cars.

It is a fact that such 'debris' does indeed pass through the oil pump in most designs but it certainly does not harm anything. And oil filters do indeed filter out particles that are large enough to do any damage......

 

[fpracha]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
No proven benefits to changing early. Just like "big" oil filters or magic synthetic oils, early oil changes don't seem to do anything but allow owners to feel good about their cars.

It is a fact that such 'debris' does indeed pass through the oil pump in most designs but it certainly does not harm anything. And oil filters do indeed filter out particles that are large enough to do any damage......

This is agreed - proof is not available.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: JerryBob
This implies that those iron particles would otherwise be circulating through your engine unless you have a magnetic drain plug, and change the oil early. I don't think that's really the case, though. Those particles would be caught by the filter.
If that is true, then why do the photos of the magnetic drain plug have so many particles on it? Those particles should have been captured by the oil filter too, right?

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: JerryBob
This implies that those iron particles would otherwise be circulating through your engine unless you have a magnetic drain plug, and change the oil early. I don't think that's really the case, though. Those particles would be caught by the filter.
If that is true, then why do the photos of the magnetic drain plug have so many particles on it? Those particles should have been captured by the oil filter too, right?


Nope. Oil flow is usually gravity into the pan, then is pumped to the filter, then to engine. Thus debris is exposed first to a magnet in the pan.

Any engine will generate some debris, the only thing in question is what harm it can do...

 

[Bamaro]

Subaru techs probably know best. Do what your manual says.

 

[Brian Barnhart]

The drain plug pictured is from a 2006 GMC Sierra 5.3L that I bought new. I was surprised that the factory drain plug was magnetic. When I saw how much iron was stuck on the plug I decided to snap a pic of it for future comparison.

I understand that iron particles the magnet fails to catch may also be caught by the filter. I just don't have a high confidence that the magnet and filter will catch and retain the high level of contaminants in a new engine for 5K+ miles.

As far as manufacturer recommendations, it common knowledge that warranty requirements don’t always reflect the best practices from a technical viewpoint. They are often decided by a combination of risk assessment and marketing. In the case of the first oil change, the new car buyer would rather not hear that he’ll need an oil change within the first month of ownership. So if the manufacturer can achieve a high level of confidence that no “early” initial oil change is needed to avoid warranty claims, they’ll gladly forgo the recommendation or requirement of an early oil change. And it seems to be well established that early oil changes are not required for good engine life, probably to at least 200k miles if other issues are taken care of along the way.

Other than the cost ($25 or so), I see no down side to an “early” first oil change unless special additives are used in the initial fill. So I spend the time and money to get the junk out earlier rather than later, even if it only seems better. Others may choose to do otherwise. It's their car and money.

 

[fpracha]

Originally Posted By: Brian Barnhart

I just don't have a high confidence that the magnet and filter will catch and retain the high level of contaminants in a new engine for 5K+ miles.

Other than the cost ($25 or so), I see no down side to an “early” first oil change unless special additives are used in the initial fill. So I spend the time and money to get the junk out earlier rather than later, even if it only seems better. Others may choose to do otherwise. It's their car and money.

You may be right on several counts above if the $25 was the ONLY cost consideration in this debate...

Why then today's newest engines come with recommendation to use the FF up to the full interval (like 10k miles or so) ?
Is it not correct when vehicle manufacturer says "use the first fill up to maximum specified interval so that its special FF additives have the time to do their designated JOB" ?

 

[Brian Barnhart]

As I said, "Other than the cost ($25 or so), I see no down side to an “early” first oil change unless special additives are used in the initial fill."

 

[ExMachina]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
No proven benefits to changing early. Just like "big" oil filters or magic synthetic oils, early oil changes don't seem to do anything but allow owners to feel good about their cars.

It is a fact that such 'debris' does indeed pass through the oil pump in most designs but it certainly does not harm anything. And oil filters do indeed filter out particles that are large enough to do any damage......


What makes you that delusional? The oil filter makers all admit they only get out down to around 20 microns. Oil films are near zero, below 20 microns all over the engine. Any iron or aluminum particles you can get out from a new engine below 20 microns is beneficial. Lots of machining dust left over in a new enginne. UOAs prove that. But then, people like you don't need proof. I've read your posts and you never have any real facts.

 

[turtlevette]

Originally Posted By: Brian Barnhart
The drain plug pictured is from a 2006 GMC Sierra 5.3L that I bought new.


Thank you for taking the time to do that. I keep thinking my old engines are coming apart when I see that much material on mag drain plugs. Gives us a good reference point that some is always normal.

We should have a whole section for magnetic drain plug photos and analysis. To go a further step, the material could be spread on a paper towel or slide and analyzed under a microscope.

 

[RGR]

Originally Posted By: Mr.Fork
I recently purchased a new 2.0XT Subaru Forester (Turbo) that is a 250-horsepower, 4-cylinder engine. It's a direct fuel injection and a high compression engine.

I picked it up with 2km on the ODO, and now it has 2300km on the engine.

Question - when do I do my first oil change? Service manual does state first change is at 10'000 km because it runs all Synthetic fluids. Someone over at Subaruforester.org states that there is a Molly break in additive and that I should change the oil out sooner than later.

Thoughts folks?


After having seen my last two UOAs on FF come back (one with 660 miles and the other with 1400) I have decided to dump all FF somewhere between 500-1000 and call it a day. Goodness knows what they put in there, mine was already out of grade in both cars by the mileage listed.

 

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted By: RGR
Originally Posted By: Mr.Fork
I recently purchased a new 2.0XT Subaru Forester (Turbo) that is a 250-horsepower, 4-cylinder engine. It's a direct fuel injection and a high compression engine.

I picked it up with 2km on the ODO, and now it has 2300km on the engine.

Question - when do I do my first oil change? Service manual does state first change is at 10'000 km because it runs all Synthetic fluids. Someone over at Subaruforester.org states that there is a Molly break in additive and that I should change the oil out sooner than later.

Thoughts folks?

Goodness knows what they put in there, mine was already out of grade in both cars by the mileage listed.

For N. America, Subaru uses an extremly light xW30, or possibly even an xW20, Idemitsu oil with slightly higher levels of ZDDP and moly than the dealer service fill.

If the OP runs a GF5 5W30, that will likely be a 20 grade as well from shearing and/or fuel contamination even with OCI's well under the severe service interval.

 

[fpracha]

Originally Posted By: Brian Barnhart
As I said, "Other than the cost ($25 or so), I see no down side to an “early” first oil change unless special additives are used in the initial fill."
Agree and really appreciate the FF magnetic drain plug early drain photo you had posted.
Is it true that only some auto makers are using special additives in the FF ?

 

[Garak]

I always wonder how much of this "special additive" business is marketing, and "showing up" in factory fill UOAs only because we are looking at numbers affected by assembly lube.