whats the harm of not adding water to non 50/50 mix??

[glloyd]

i flushed my coolant a few months back. i used a non premix 50/50 that required adding water. however i did not add water. i had been driving like this for about 2400ml and no problems. are there any long term harm in this ??

ps: does 50/50 water/ coolant keep engine cooler than 50/50 premix??

 

[nobadges]

100% water has a higher heat capacity than the 50/50 mix, but doesn't have the needed corrosion/freeze protection you need.

Always use 50/50.

If you used straight coolant without diluting it, then drain 50% of it and refill with water to get the 50/50 mix.

I don't think any harm will have been done by running it non-diluted for a while.

 

[vizvo]

glloyd writes "I used a non premix 50/50 that required adding water. however i did not add water."

Here are some ramifications to consider:

• Running over 70% EG coolant will raise the freeze point - the opposite of what you want.
• According to some studies, running over 60% EG coolant increases chance of any silicates to polymerize.
• Higher concentrations of EG coolant are less efficient in heat transfer.
• Higher concentrations of EG coolant cause your engine to work harder and reduce gas mileage.

Most manufacturers suggest 50/50 mix. In warmer climates you can get by with less, say 1/3 coolant, 2/3 distilled water. According to OWI/Peak, unlike the freeze point, corrosion protection is not as sensitive to dilution. In other words, if your only interest is corrosion protection, and your climate cooperates, you can get by on less antifreeze than would be needed for deep freeze protection.

 

[glloyd]

@ vizvo... what silicates are you talking about. im new to this coolant stuff. i live in nyc so i guess a 50/50 pre-mix is what i might go with, but does a 50/50 mix have a higher boiling point than a 50/50 pre-mix?? either way i am most likly to go with a pre-mix. would redline water wetter be of any realistic help as far as raising the boiling point of a premix ; hense most pre mix products state clearly not to add water.

 

[eljefino]

Depending on how you flushed you might be close to 50/50.

For example, if the entire cooling system (block, heater core, etc) has a 2 gallon capacity, you drained and refilled until clear, then drained 1 gallon from the radiator and filled with 100% antifreeze you're fine. You'd have to look up in your owner's manual what your capacity is and reconcile that with what you put in.

With a pressure cap on your rad and a properly functioning system you should never count on raising a proper mix's 270' or so boiling point to 275' or some other goal. The decreased heat transfer of having less water in the mix will make you reach that higher point anyway and you'll have the same, or less, protection and cooling capacity.

The reason 50/50 antifreeze bottles so clearly say not to add water is lots of boneheads have done it (assuming it required dilution) making it 25/75. You should consider the remaining fluid in your system (which is why you need the capacity-- to compare against what you drained) before adding premix. On the assumption you have X quarts remaining of pure antifreeze in the car somewhere you should start refilling with X quarts water then top off with 50/50.

 

[labman]

Pure ethylene glycol freezes at 0 F. Add water in cold weather.

 

[vizvo]

Hello glloyd. Some brands of anti-freeze use silicates as anti-corrosion inhibitors. Silicates provide excellent corrosion protection, however excessively high concentrations may polymerize into a clogging gel over time. Although color is no longer a perfect guideline, traditionally it has been the case that fluorescent green coolant contained silicates. Your brand of coolant may not have any; silicates are less commonly used these days.

In any event, there is no cause for alarm. My guess is that at most you might have to drain out 3 or 4 quarts of fluid and replace it with distilled water. Look at the above reply from eljefino. He gives good advice.

Before doing anything, maybe you ought to invest in one of those 3 or 4 dollar antifreeze testers. Prestone makes a good one with a needle pointer. Other inexpensive ones use 4 balls which float according to the coolant concentration. Why not test your coolant and report back? It could be that your coolant concentration is fine and that you won't have to do anything.

NYC doesn't have that harsh a climate. My guess is that your temperature very rarely gets as low as even 0° F. According to Prestone charts, a 40% concentration of antifreeze will protect down to -12° F, and a 33% concentration will protect down to 0° F. And a 50% concentration would hedge your bets!

 

[Gary Allan]

Yes, labman. All EG comes with 3-X% water in it. It would be hard to sell a truckload of frozen antifreeze in Frostbite Falls SD.

 

[Ray H]

A minimum of 30% water is also necessary to "activate" the corrosion inhibitor chemistry. (This isn't true of Evans Coolant which is intended to be run "neat".)

 

[glloyd]

thanks for the advise guys. when it starts to get a little warmer i will drain the coolant and replace with 50/50 mix. do you guys recomend adding redline water weter?? is it worth the 10 bucks or is it just another bogus additive to get consumers money.

 

[Ray H]

Look, you do NOT have to totally drain what's in your cooling system. I'm not sure waiting in your area until the weather warms is a great idea, either. As labman already posted, antifreeze concentrate will freeze SOLID at 0 degrees F. (Can you say, "cracked heads and/or block"?) Get one of the Prestone antifreeze testers to see where you are percentage-wise with the present coolant. Drain and CATCH the present undiluted coolant concentrate from the radiator, and top up with distilled water and some of the caught concentrate to achieve a 50/50 mix. The rest of the concentrate you caught can be transferred to a clean, sealable container and saved for future use - no sense wasting perfectly good, nearly new concentrate. Personally, I'm neither in favor of screwing around with additional chemistry that may or may not be compatible with standard coolants and seal materials, nor have I ever had occasion to feel I needed to do so. I'm sure others will disagree, but then, they're not paying the costs involved with my car maintenance, either. Do whatever you feel is best for your ride.

 

[vizvo]

glloyd writes "Do you guys recomend adding redline water weter?"

No. It is a waste of money unless you have a specialized need for it. Mostly it is used by people who have cooling problems or high performance engines. For example, Ethylene Glycol antifreeze takes more horsepower to pump; some guys want to squeeze the last bit of HP out of their performance set up, so they run on just WW and water. Of course you can't do this in the winter in a cold climate; WW isn't antifreeze.

 

[Vilan]

This site has a handy graph of how the amount of water vs coolant provides temperature protection:

http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF6/680.html

As you can see, pure antifreeze gives *worse* low temperature protection than a mix. The best protection is actually around 60% coolant, but 50/50 is easy to remember, and more than good enough for most climates.

Also, the water is what does most of the actual cooling. The antifreeze's job is to lower the freezing point and provide additives to resist corrosion and whatnot. I wouldn't recommend running on pure antifreeze.

 

[glloyd]

@ vizvo- so is it safe to add water wetter to premix 50/50??

 

[glloyd]

wow i never knew anti freeze could freeze. but i would preffer to use the premix 50/50 solution rather than measuring out 60/40 water/antifreeze.

 

[Kestas]

When we were in high school, my buddy ran pure antifreeze in his car. He ended up blowing a head gasket in his 66 Ford 352.

 

[sky jumper]

is there a better way to test EG concentration than the prestone kit? those stips just don't tell you much. it's hard to match them with the color scale, and only read to 60%. how do I know if I'm at 65% or 85%?

also - are the hydrometer testers inacurate for higher EG concentrations??

[ January 03, 2006, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: sky jumper ]