Whats the deal with GUARANTEED 15k OCI's??

[Artem]

Alright so here's the beef i have with these so called "Guaranteed performance and protection for 15,000 miles" claims done by oil companies.

The way i see it, if it says 15k on the bottle, any average Joe should be able to run that up to 15k and have a used oil analysis come back saying the oil is STILL in good shape (or at the very least, be border line at being completely used up)
I realize that they're sneaky as and the actual warranty states "From Lube related failure"

From all the used oil analysis i've seen on the popular brands with extended OCIs GUARANTEE, they rarely last up to specified 15k intervals.

A lot of used oil analysis show the additives almost gone @ 9-12k on average or showing that the oil isn't in the best shape to keep running for another 5,000 miles.

I'm sure that same oil can keep lubricating the engine up to 15k as per the Guarantee but it won't be cleaning all that well with all the additives GONE! and the oil being full of God knows what.

In my Educated opinion, if an oil is guaranteed for 15,000 miles, it should technically last well beyond 20k at a MINIMUM so that when you're changing it at 15,000 miles, you haven't used up all of the oils protective/cleaning properties and there is a Large safety margin still present... Just in case.

It seems to me that if we all start using Mobil 1 Extended Performance and run it up to 15k intervals, our engines wouldn't be all that healthy after 50,000 miles, if running at all in some cases.

Another perfectly good example is Amsoil with their 25k or even 35k claims.

The only time i've seen SSO last up to 25-30k is from one member on here with the Ap1 S2000 where he's pushed the oil up to 35k but with a Bypass filtration system installed.

A few other 25k OCIs are available but that's not my point.

Amsoil doesn't seem to specify that you need the Bypass system in order to run it up to 35k... SAFELY. So whats the verdict then?

Another good point is top off oil.

I realize its normal for engines to burn X amount of oil and for top off oil to be needed but if 50% of the people with 10-15K OCI DIDN'T add any oil during that run, would the oil have enough strength to last that long without any replenishment from the top off oil??

Who knows...

Thats all i can think of for now in this rant. I'm hoping for some educated responses from the senior members on this board.

 

[hooligan24]

im pretty sure most of them, or all of them say UP TO 15000 miles

 

[tig1]

Can't say about other oils but a friend is using Mobil 1 5w30 Extended Performance in his 03 Windstar. Does at least 15K OCIs . His engine has 130K and is still very clean through the oil fill hole, and the engine sounds good. We recently cut his filter open and it was very clean. I do 10K,but at times have gone well over with engines that have had over 200K. Some engines may not do well with 15K OCIs, turbos, etc. but I believe most will from what I have seen. Heck, I know guys doing 12-15K with regular Mobil 1 5w30 without a problem.

 

[simple_gifts]

From the SSO page:

Quote:

• Normal Service(3) – Up to 35,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
• Severe Service(4) – Up to 17,500 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
• In all non-gasoline fueled vehicle applications, extend the oil change interval according to oil analysis or follow the OEM* drain interval.


"Up to" with "analysis"; I don't see the heartburn here. There are no wild claims; any thinking person would extend OCI this way.

 

[tig1]

According to your latest UOA. that EP did quite well in your Honda. 15K would have worked for you.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Artem
I realize that they're sneaky as HeIl and the actual warranty states "From Lube related failure"

How is this sneaky? Why should they warranty anything other than their product?

They guarantee that their product will perform as required under the conditions in which it is designed to run -- i.e. adequate sump size and filtration for the OCI, in an engine with no serious problems. If your application doesn't meet those criteria, or if your engine breaks for reasons unrelated to the oil, the warranty doesn't apply. Pretty simple.

 

[webfors]

Just learn to read between the marketing lines and your life will be filled with joy.

 

[scurvy]

Ironically, I got the Mobil 1 'Proven performance & protection for up to 15,000 miles' banner ad when I viewed this thread.

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
From the SSO page:

Quote:

• Normal Service(3) – Up to 35,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
• Severe Service(4) – Up to 17,500 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
• In all non-gasoline fueled vehicle applications, extend the oil change interval according to oil analysis or follow the OEM* drain interval.


"Up to" with "analysis"; I don't see the heartburn here. There are no wild claims; any thinking person would extend OCI this way.


Isn't that basically referring to diesel powered engines requiring to have the oil analyzed when doing extended OCIs?

I see it as; NORMAL OIL USE - up to 17,500 for severe service in my gas powered Civic.

Am i reading it wrong?

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: webfors
Just learn to read between the marketing lines and your life will be filled with joy.


+1 Marketing that's all it is. If they said get a used oil analysis report to be sure they'd cast doubt and it could hurt sales. Smart people who do extended drains get a used oil analysis to be sure. Others just go for it on the oil company's word and hopefully they don't have a problem, or sell their cars before they do.

IMO extended drains aren't for everyone, but under the right conditions, and backed up by testing they do work for a lot of people. With my driving conditions, I'll pass. JMO

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: simple_gifts


"Up to" with "analysis"; I don't see the heartburn here. There are no wild claims; any thinking person would extend OCI this way.


Originally Posted By: hooligan24
im pretty sure most of them, or all of them say UP TO 15000 miles


Every Forum argument that i've seen with Synthetic oil vs conventional, people always use the MAX number when doing the math.

Amsoil themselves use their 25k interval to calculate the savings vs using conventional oil

Quote:
Saves Money
Cost Per 25,000 Miles

By extending oil drain intervals through its premium formulation, AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oil saves drivers money. A value comparison shows AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oil costs less than competing motor oils over 25,000 miles.

While competing motor oils must be changed up to five times over 25,000 miles, AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oil is only changed once, saving both time and money.


How do i save money if i have to spend hundreds of dollars doing UOA over the course of a few years (takes a while to rack up 15k+ miles) just to EVENTUALLY figure out what you hope to be a "safe" OCI for YOUR car with YOUR driving style/conditions...

Seems cheaper to just change the oil every 3k and call it a day.

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Artem
I realize that they're sneaky as HeIl and the actual warranty states "From Lube related failure"

How is this sneaky? Why should they warranty anything other than their product?

They guarantee that their product will perform as required under the conditions in which it is designed to run -- i.e. adequate sump size and filtration for the OCI, in an engine with no serious problems. If your application doesn't meet those criteria, or if your engine breaks for reasons unrelated to the oil, the warranty doesn't apply. Pretty simple.


The point is that the 15k claim is under ideal condition. 90% of cars on the road are under Severe service.

It [censored] me off when i hear some moron at autozone telling his wife "lets just get this one, we won't have to change it for 15,000 miles because its synthetic"

The fact is, the oil won't last 15k in severe service.

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: tig1
According to your latest UOA. that EP did quite well in your Honda. 15K would have worked for you.


You're right, Mobil 1 Extended Performance did hold up pretty well in my application. More then 80% of those miles were highway trips of 800+ miles.

Right before pulling the sample, i did a 2,200 mile road trip in 2 days.

I highly doubt the oil would have been in the same condition had i ran the car in mostly all city driving conditions, idling in traffic for hours on end, and daily short trips.

I considered that oil run to be at optimum as possible (all highway) and the oil didn't look to good coming outta the car after 10k. I sure as [censored] wouldn't run it much further. I like to have SOME oil life reserve left. I'm not trying to save the world by doing 25k intervals.

 

[tig1]

Artem, I think you are right. If I were you I would forget the AMSOIL Signature Series, go with a good dino, and change every 3K.

 

[tig1]

Artem,
You said 80% of your miles was highway, and you just did a 2200 mile trip before changing the oil, and had several 800+ mile trips. I also noticed your OCI was for 8 months. I guess your Honda must set a lot without being driven?

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: Artem


I highly doubt the oil would have been in the same condition had i ran the car in mostly all city driving conditions, idling in traffic for hours on end, and daily short trips.

I considered that oil run to be at optimum as possible (all highway) and the oil didn't look to good coming outta the car after 10k. I sure as [censored] wouldn't run it much further.


1. "what the oil looks like" isn't a great indicator of its condition

2. please provide a single example of one of the extended drain oils in a non-turbo car not being suitable for use after an extended drain, as long as the level in the sump was maintained? Just one? There are a lot of used oil analysis on here, it shouldn't be hard??

Meanwhile, give this a look: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/mobil-1-5w30-ep-20-979-miles-2004-sequoia.141881/

2004 Toyota Sequoia 4.7L V8 2UZ-FE 111,981 miles.
20,979 miles OCI.
Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w30.

"Oil in service for 13 months of local New England driving - mostly short trips of 5 to 20 miles plus some road trips and infrequent towing of 3,500 to 4,500 lbs trailer."

No oil is going to be suitable for ALL engines under ALL conditions. That's silly. However, in most passenger cars under normal service, the oils perform as advertised.

You seem like you're just trying to find something to be mad about??

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Artem,
You said 80% of your miles was highway, and you just did a 2200 mile trip before changing the oil, and had several 800+ mile trips. I also noticed your OCI was for 8 months. I guess your Honda must set a lot without being driven?


When not in use for work, it gets driven short trips to school and back, store, etc etc, by my sister (10-20 miles tops)

It takes her 2-3 weeks to run a tank of gas dry.

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Artem, I think you are right. If I were you I would forget the AMSOIL Signature Series, go with a good dino, and change every 3K.


Sarcasm?

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Artem
Originally Posted By: tig1
Artem, I think you are right. If I were you I would forget the AMSOIL Signature Series, go with a good dino, and change every 3K.


Sarcasm?

No sarcasm. Just seems by the nature of the thread you started that you are expressing your doubts of long OCIs. You even said that if most people used Mobil 1 Extended Performance oils for 15K, that many of the engines doing that wouldn't last 50K. So I recommend that you change every 3K with dino and be happy, and have an engine that will last 200-300K, since longer OCI guys like me will have pre mature engine failures.

 

[Artem]

I said that because of a large amount of UOA after roughly 8-9k showing the oil in need of changing. I doubt it will be a good idea to run it much longer, hence my predictions for increased engine wear.

I've just recently got over the 3k rule so i'm extremely cautious when extending an OCI past 10k.