Whats better M1 filter or the K&N filter¿
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Good question.
I got the flow figures from the test performed on this site. I do believe that they are accurate. They may not give real life pressure drops, but I believe that the relative rankings are accurate.
Quite honestly, these tests are far, far more significant the some guy with cutting open filters with an hacksaw. No one has any problems believing him. But when someone pushes oil through filters and concludes that Fram is pretty good, then there must be a mistake. The tests must be incomplete.
Tom
That's from Patman right here on this WEB site refering to K&N's filtration. A Fram is rated at 94% in the multipass and 96% in the single pass.
I got the flow figures from the test performed on this site. I do believe that they are accurate. They may not give real life pressure drops, but I believe that the relative rankings are accurate.
Quite honestly, these tests are far, far more significant the some guy with cutting open filters with an hacksaw. No one has any problems believing him. But when someone pushes oil through filters and concludes that Fram is pretty good, then there must be a mistake. The tests must be incomplete.
Tom
kctom
Here is the new Fram filter test... it apparently does not flow that well. The first test of the Fram WAS inaccurate: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/oilfilters/newfram.jpg
Here is the new Fram filter test... it apparently does not flow that well. The first test of the Fram WAS inaccurate: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/oilfilters/newfram.jpg
This raises a question. Which flow test is wrong? At this point it looks like any conclusions based on these tests are suspect, including the claim that K&N flow well. Secondly, basic physics says that the restriction producing the least back pressure gives maximum flow.
As far as believing advertising, when it comes to micron ratings, that's all that I have. I did find that Purolator rates Fram as having a beta of 2.5 at 10 microns. This means that Fram removes 60% of the 10 micron particles in one pass. I'll bet that this beats the hell out of K&N. But we will never know unless someone other than K&N, with the necessary facilities, does the testing.
Tom
As far as believing advertising, when it comes to micron ratings, that's all that I have. I did find that Purolator rates Fram as having a beta of 2.5 at 10 microns. This means that Fram removes 60% of the 10 micron particles in one pass. I'll bet that this beats the hell out of K&N. But we will never know unless someone other than K&N, with the necessary facilities, does the testing.
Tom
Inteleman34
I just check the new Fram test. The testing setup was changed. There are no new comparative figures on Fram. Given that it was the only filter tested with this set up, any comparasons with other filters, tested with the old testing procedure, are invalid.
Tom
I just check the new Fram test. The testing setup was changed. There are no new comparative figures on Fram. Given that it was the only filter tested with this set up, any comparasons with other filters, tested with the old testing procedure, are invalid.
Tom
YZF150
I never recommend Fram. Someone else recommended K&N. My support for my assertion may be weak, but adequate to refute a completely unsupport recommendation.
TOM
I never recommend Fram. Someone else recommended K&N. My support for my assertion may be weak, but adequate to refute a completely unsupport recommendation.
TOM
Patman
Staff member
I used to get myself all worried about which filters stopped the most small particles, until I started talking to Terry Dyson, who looks at thousands of oil analysis reports, and sees no benefit whatsoever in those supposed "high efficiency" filters. He is one of the first ones on here to tell us that higher flow is much more important. I think it's especially important for someone like me who likes to drive full throttle a lot, you definitely don't want a filter that goes in and out of bypass mode so often, disrupting proper oil flow.
And the K&N oil filter apparently has good oil flow, which is one of the main things to look for.
There are also a few other thing to look for. Does the adbv function the way that it should? Too many dry-starts will cause the engine to wear more quickly than it should. Does the bypass valve function properly?
I may not be an engineer or a lubrication chemist, but I saw with my own two eyes a FRAM oil filter that had a nonfunctional advb. I also heard with my own ears start up noise when I used FRAM oil filters. And I have nothing against FRAM. I used FRAM oil filters for a long time. I was a FRAM guy. And if the companies I believed in had continued to make good products, I would probably still be a company guy. I am not a company guy any longer. I use what I am able to determine is the best at the best price, regardless if it is FRAM, Purolator, Hastings, Baldwin, Amsoil, Hard Driver, Mobil 1, Wix, Champion Labs, or whatever.
We do not know what the final results of the BOBISTHEOILGUY oil filter tests will be. At the moment, K&N looks pretty good. This will presumably continue, but if at the end of the testing, perhaps a Purolator Premium Plus looks just as good (at a better price), then I will use the Purolator Premium Plus.
kctom has really defended the FRAM. That is fine-he can use whatever he wants. There was a time a long time ago when I would have defended the FRAM. But it seems to me that there is a considerable amount of information leading to the conclusion that maybe the FRAM is not so good right now. That is fine also-I have moved on.
There are also a few other thing to look for. Does the adbv function the way that it should? Too many dry-starts will cause the engine to wear more quickly than it should. Does the bypass valve function properly?
I may not be an engineer or a lubrication chemist, but I saw with my own two eyes a FRAM oil filter that had a nonfunctional advb. I also heard with my own ears start up noise when I used FRAM oil filters. And I have nothing against FRAM. I used FRAM oil filters for a long time. I was a FRAM guy. And if the companies I believed in had continued to make good products, I would probably still be a company guy. I am not a company guy any longer. I use what I am able to determine is the best at the best price, regardless if it is FRAM, Purolator, Hastings, Baldwin, Amsoil, Hard Driver, Mobil 1, Wix, Champion Labs, or whatever.
We do not know what the final results of the BOBISTHEOILGUY oil filter tests will be. At the moment, K&N looks pretty good. This will presumably continue, but if at the end of the testing, perhaps a Purolator Premium Plus looks just as good (at a better price), then I will use the Purolator Premium Plus.
kctom has really defended the FRAM. That is fine-he can use whatever he wants. There was a time a long time ago when I would have defended the FRAM. But it seems to me that there is a considerable amount of information leading to the conclusion that maybe the FRAM is not so good right now. That is fine also-I have moved on.
I reiterate: the test bed is not yet validated. Therefore, no assertion founded on testing, at this time, can qualify as fact. By extension, any attempt to refute such an assertion with another assertion derived from the same set of unvalidated observations, is, by definition, similarly nonfactual.
Bottom line: aside from what we can know empirically about how filters are constructed, which can be determined by tearing them down--and even then we can't know, just by looking, the substance of which the media is made--we just don't know yet how well they perform relative to each other.
Bottom line: aside from what we can know empirically about how filters are constructed, which can be determined by tearing them down--and even then we can't know, just by looking, the substance of which the media is made--we just don't know yet how well they perform relative to each other.
Although this an amatuerish unsubstantiated post I must say in the name of my personal honor.
FRAM IS A REPUGNANT OIL FILTER
Go with any of these Champion contracted-produced name brands:
(Mobil 1, K&N, AC Delco Blue, pre2001 AC Delco Golds, Bosch, SuperTech, Purolator)
I hear Castrol is Champion but I am not sure?
And what the heck is up with the FRAM X2 in the special metal cover case. Does Fram need a special can to showcase this filter? I do not understand it.
Or what about the Fram filters that use cardboard end caps...or the ones that are impregenated with TEFLON?
Although this is unsubstaniated on my part, i thought the Slick 50 and the use of Teflon was specifically bad for an engine.
Enough, Fram can improve but will not since they really on lifetime customers that still see them as the same light as the OEM supplier of Chyrsler in the 1960's hey days.
FRAM IS A REPUGNANT OIL FILTER
Go with any of these Champion contracted-produced name brands:
(Mobil 1, K&N, AC Delco Blue, pre2001 AC Delco Golds, Bosch, SuperTech, Purolator)
I hear Castrol is Champion but I am not sure?
And what the heck is up with the FRAM X2 in the special metal cover case. Does Fram need a special can to showcase this filter? I do not understand it.
Or what about the Fram filters that use cardboard end caps...or the ones that are impregenated with TEFLON?
Although this is unsubstaniated on my part, i thought the Slick 50 and the use of Teflon was specifically bad for an engine.
Enough, Fram can improve but will not since they really on lifetime customers that still see them as the same light as the OEM supplier of Chyrsler in the 1960's hey days.
While I have not had any problems with Fram (I think because I have never used one!), not being comfortable using one is enough reason for me. After reading the posts here, I've vowed to never use a Fram. I'll spend the extra $$$ for something else that I feel comfortable using on my vehicle or my family's.
For somebody who's so insistent that opinions are worthless, you sure are pulling out all the stops to convince us that yours are the exception to the rule.
Look, like many other people, I used Frams all the time. My dad taught me to use Fram from the first time I was old enough to watch him change the oil. Also like many other people, I started noticing the decline in quality in their products. I have the option to buy a filter that uses cheap cardboard and plastic, or one that uses metal.
When I did my first Auto-RX treatment, I decided to try cheap Frams and Delcos during the test. I got crazy valve clacking using the Fram. Is that scientific? No, but it's good enough for me. If it's not good enough for you, so be it. About a gazillion people here have told you, "If you like Fram that's great; use Fram. I never would." Isn't that good enough for you? My dad still uses Fram. We're still speaking. Get over it!
The Internet is not the place to go shopping for hard facts, that's true. What good is it doing to get your blood pressure all elevated because a lot of people share the same opinion about something?
Look, like many other people, I used Frams all the time. My dad taught me to use Fram from the first time I was old enough to watch him change the oil. Also like many other people, I started noticing the decline in quality in their products. I have the option to buy a filter that uses cheap cardboard and plastic, or one that uses metal.
When I did my first Auto-RX treatment, I decided to try cheap Frams and Delcos during the test. I got crazy valve clacking using the Fram. Is that scientific? No, but it's good enough for me. If it's not good enough for you, so be it. About a gazillion people here have told you, "If you like Fram that's great; use Fram. I never would." Isn't that good enough for you? My dad still uses Fram. We're still speaking. Get over it!
The Internet is not the place to go shopping for hard facts, that's true. What good is it doing to get your blood pressure all elevated because a lot of people share the same opinion about something?
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