give reasons also please, thanx
Whats better M1 filter or the K&N filter¿
- Thread starter theGINGERBREADMAN
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I think it depends what kind of driving you do. The Mobil 1 filters better then most down to 10 microns and the K&N folws much better. I would use the K&N because of how well it flows and it still filters good.
I use Napa Gold oil filters made by Wix and these seem to be a good comprimise and are top quality and not expensive.
I use Napa Gold oil filters made by Wix and these seem to be a good comprimise and are top quality and not expensive.
Is this assesment based on some research you have done?
Just reading many posts on here about filters. Look at the Bobistheoilguy filter test thread, it is a few threads down. It has alot of good info on it. K&N's flow better then Mobil 1's and even though the Mobil 1 filters better you can have higher wear numbers than a filter that filters less but folws better because it is letting more oil to the engine and not restricting folw. Look at some of the UOA...good stuff!
i would use the k&n filter not only it flows freely it filters 10-20u
Why not use a Fram? It protects better than the M1 and flows better than the K&N. You will find that info right here on this Website.
Tom
Tom
Fram's quality is not very good(for the most part). They use sub-standered materials and manufacturing methods. I'm sure an expert can give the details. Fram has showed a couple of times some goog wear numbers but I couldn't find those threads. Anyone know where they might be?
Patman
Staff member
I still question that flow rating. I don't think that particular filter was flowing well because of it's media, but I feel it was in bypass or it was leaking unfiltered oil past it's media. The media in Toughguard and Duraguard Fram is supposed to be very similar, yet look how poorly the Toughguard did. I bet if Bob tried a second Fram it would not match that 4psi drop (unless it too was in total bypass)
I just don't trust Fram's inferior quality materials, when so many other filters are the same or less $$$ but with better construction. Supertechs at $2 are the filter of choice if you want a low cost filter. If you have the $$$, go with K&N, IMHO.
quote:
Originally posted by Patman:
I'm with Patman here.
I have heard this about Fram for years on the internet. I think that Fram has a bad reputation simply because Fram has a bad reputation. This has taken up a life of its own. Quite frankly the ability to think critically is sorely lacking among many of the people that post on the internet.
I have searched the internet. I can find only two intances in which a Fram filter was actaully found damaged upon inspection after use. In both cases the filter had suffered a collapsed center tube. According to the filter manufactures trade association web page this is not indicative af a filter problem.
I have had 750K miles with Fram and 33 years. They can't be too bad.
Tom
I have searched the internet. I can find only two intances in which a Fram filter was actaully found damaged upon inspection after use. In both cases the filter had suffered a collapsed center tube. According to the filter manufactures trade association web page this is not indicative af a filter problem.
I have had 750K miles with Fram and 33 years. They can't be too bad.
Tom
I am no expert but I can tell you a few things from personal experience. I used to use FRAM oil filters all the time. I had problems with two of them. I tried a FRAM on a Toyota Corolla that I used to own, and when I changed oil there was no oil in the oil filter. The anti-drainback valve did not work.
I also came across information on the internet where there was information about FRAM oil filters used on racing motorcycles failing, and the racers getting hurt when oil got on their tires. There have also been oil filter studies on the internet.
Then there are the cardboard endcaps used on most FRAM oil filters that do not exactly inspire confidence. Personally, I would rather have metal endcaps.
FRAM has come out with this X2 ExtendedGuard oil filter. It may or may not be high quality (at least it has metal endcaps), but when I checked the price of those filters in a Checker auto Parts store, the filters cost something like 12 or 13 dollars. You can get a K&N at the same store for $9.99. I will take the K&N, thank you.
I also came across information on the internet where there was information about FRAM oil filters used on racing motorcycles failing, and the racers getting hurt when oil got on their tires. There have also been oil filter studies on the internet.
Then there are the cardboard endcaps used on most FRAM oil filters that do not exactly inspire confidence. Personally, I would rather have metal endcaps.
FRAM has come out with this X2 ExtendedGuard oil filter. It may or may not be high quality (at least it has metal endcaps), but when I checked the price of those filters in a Checker auto Parts store, the filters cost something like 12 or 13 dollars. You can get a K&N at the same store for $9.99. I will take the K&N, thank you.
Thanks for proving my point. I get lots of worthless opinions and no verifiable facts.
I really have a problem with this drain back issue. Doesn't anyone see that all oil filters have a built-in leak. There is no way one can expect an oil filter not to drainback some through the threads at the base. I have never screwed two pieces of pipe together that didn't leak without the use of some form of pipe sealant.
In the Fram filter that I cut open, there was a very flexible rubber piece that formed a a seal against as smooth metal surface. In fact I have a 98 Camery with an upside down filter. No Problems with a Fram filter.
Tom
I really have a problem with this drain back issue. Doesn't anyone see that all oil filters have a built-in leak. There is no way one can expect an oil filter not to drainback some through the threads at the base. I have never screwed two pieces of pipe together that didn't leak without the use of some form of pipe sealant.
In the Fram filter that I cut open, there was a very flexible rubber piece that formed a a seal against as smooth metal surface. In fact I have a 98 Camery with an upside down filter. No Problems with a Fram filter.
Tom
kctom, I can see oil draining from an oil filter maybe overnight, but not immediately. The FRAM oil filter I had on my Toyota Corolla drained oil right before an oil change. The filter mounted sideways on the engine. Toyota oil filters still had oil in the filter.
I did not understand completely what you said about the FRAM filter with the flexible rubber piece. Are you saying that FRAM has a superior design so as to prevent oil from leaking out of one of their oil filters? If this is true than FRAM filters would be great for filters mounted sideways or upside down on an engine.
Personally, I have never been able to figure out why the manufacturers of vehicles do not mount the oil filter so that oil can stay in the oil filter. And so that oil could be put in the oil filter prior to installation. In fact, I think that would be a good question for a post.
I did not understand completely what you said about the FRAM filter with the flexible rubber piece. Are you saying that FRAM has a superior design so as to prevent oil from leaking out of one of their oil filters? If this is true than FRAM filters would be great for filters mounted sideways or upside down on an engine.
Personally, I have never been able to figure out why the manufacturers of vehicles do not mount the oil filter so that oil can stay in the oil filter. And so that oil could be put in the oil filter prior to installation. In fact, I think that would be a good question for a post.
If you want to use a Fram go ahead..personally I don't care for the plastic "poppet" by-pass valve,rubber anti-drain back valve sealing on a cardboard endcap,low square inch count of media material...there are plenty of better choices for the same money...but..if you like Fram...use em'.
Thats about you can say: "they are not "too bad". For years they enjoyed a good reputation because of good advertising and endorsements. As time went by other companies decided to get a piece of the pie. They turned out better filters with advanced media. Fram as part of a troubled company was slow to react and merely lived on its laurels. Any time you saw a comparison of cutaway filters in auto stores with say purolator comparing itself to the national brand-that national brand was Fram. You could see a clear difference (Fram=inferior). Fram has moved in the direction of improving their product (because they had too) They have come out with the X2 line that is on a par with other manufactures (at a higher price) They were the last to advertise micron ratings (gee-I wonder why). Of course they were the ones using the cardboard end caps.
Others can continue to use them. I chose not too.
I won't totally bad mouth Fram - but the drain-back valve used for the Volvo sizers did a terrible job at retaining any oil....thIS was/IS a real phenomena and there are still plenty of die hard Volvo-ites (Brickboarders, Swedishbrickers, Turbobrickers and Rolling fans) that still call Fram oil filters:
THE ORANGE KISS OF DEATH
THE ORANGE KISS OF DEATH
Yeah why use a so-so quality filter when you can get a filter proven to perform better at the same price or lower? This web site is all about facts and seeing past all the "hype" advertising to find out what products really are the "best"!
When I mentioned the flexible rubber in the filter, I was just trying to show that the filter had, what appeared to me, to be a functioning anti-drainback valve. Every Fram that I ever pulled from an engine had oil in it. In fact I must punch a hole in the end to get them to drain, even when off of the engine. If you experience slow oil pressure rise with any filter, remove it and replace it. The problem is easy to spot.
I agree that we must get past the hype when it comes to determining quality. Let's take a hard look at the negative hype against Fram. I believe that it is all B.S. Fram makes a fine filter. It flows oil well. It removes dirt well. No one has shown me that anything about Fram's construction is going to endanger my engine. I say this after 750K miles of Fram use.
The most important element in choosing car care products is you. There is no point is skinning your knuckles and getting you hands dirty, if you don't get the feeling of satisfaction from a job well done. Use parts that you can trust.
To me, it looks like Fram is a good choice. I can get filters that filter better, but they don't flow oil as well. The small particles that they remove are harmless anyway. I can pay more to get filters that are built like battle ships, but don't filter or flow oil as well. I don't need that. And I can get Frams cheap!!
Tom
I agree that we must get past the hype when it comes to determining quality. Let's take a hard look at the negative hype against Fram. I believe that it is all B.S. Fram makes a fine filter. It flows oil well. It removes dirt well. No one has shown me that anything about Fram's construction is going to endanger my engine. I say this after 750K miles of Fram use.
The most important element in choosing car care products is you. There is no point is skinning your knuckles and getting you hands dirty, if you don't get the feeling of satisfaction from a job well done. Use parts that you can trust.
To me, it looks like Fram is a good choice. I can get filters that filter better, but they don't flow oil as well. The small particles that they remove are harmless anyway. I can pay more to get filters that are built like battle ships, but don't filter or flow oil as well. I don't need that. And I can get Frams cheap!!
Tom
Katcom, I suggest you cut a Fram open and take a look at it. Then cut open a Baldwin and compare material, construction methods,total surface area, number of pleats, burst strength and Beta rateing amoungst other things. How do you think that the average person is going to know if the filter is working properly? How does the average person prove that an engine failure is the direct result of a filter failure. They do not. It is probably as difficult to prove this as it is to prove that an oil has caused an engine failure. You might check google for filter study. It was a good study that was cut short by threats of law suits!! I would rather not take a chance on a brand with questionable quality or design. I used the Fram brand most of my life as well. When Fram was sold to Allied Signal the design was changed and drasticly cheapened. Delco also cheapened their design but not to the etent that Fram did. I will not put a filter on my car if I have not seen the inside. I can not see putting a poorly designed filter on the second most expensive purchase most people will make in their lives.
I have cut a Fram filter apart and could not find anything to dislike. I have searched google. I find that people dislike Fram because they have heard bad things, from other people who have heard bad things...........
Do you have any facts? They look good when oil is ran through them.
Do you have any facts? They look good when oil is ran through them.
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