What would be an acceptable charge time at a fast charger for you?

y_p_w said:
With any competently designed battery management system, a lithium-ion battery will have some sort of reserve even if it specially won't use it for its main purpose. I've heard claims that most lithium-ion battery systems could be extended to about double the capacity (increasing the voltage range) if users would be OK with considerably fewer overall use cycles.

My portable devices will shut down at a certain point, but the battery is still providing power where it will display an empty battery symbol if I press the power button. I've heard of EVs refusing to move at a certain point, but the battery management system is still providing low-voltage power to the onboard systems.
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yup - Its always been the case that that the deeper the DOD, the harder it is on the battery.

The BMS is there a a bumper stop, but Ive never seen a case where shallower cycling doesn't contribute to longer life.

The ICE version of the "drive it till its out of fuel" game is when you suck up all the crud sloshing around on the very bottom of a tank or burn out the fuel pump trying to keep starting it when it depends on the fuel to keep cool.
 
billt460 said:
So.... All those Midwestern people that were pushing and towing these things in that last cold snap were all putting on a show, because some Youtuber proved them wrong with a 5 minute video?
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EVs were not the only cars that had trouble during the cold. Dead batteries in ICE cars, frozen locks and other issues.
Teslas will pretty much scream at you when your battery is low; it shows you charger locations with the number of open chargers. The car will estimate wait time if necessary. It will reroute you to the best choice. Teslas will preheat the battery for faster charging. But they can't make the decision for you.

The problems were charging poor charging decisions leading to lines at chargers. We are talking about frigid temperatures.
Where were the reports of EV trouble in other cold environments?

Anyone who goes out in that weather in any car that is not ready for any reason is asking for trouble, and it could even be deadly.
If you read past the clickbait headlines, the articles stated that many of the vehicles were rentals used as Uber/Lift; drivers ran them down to zero before trying to charge.

I have said a million times these cars are not for everyone and not for every use. Were there problems? Sure. Charging infrastructure was a problem, but not as critical as driver education and decision making.
 
JeffKeryk said:
Perhaps the prices in your area are more reasonable than around here. Costco has lines most of the time; I get there 15 minutes before the warehouse opens.
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Costco’s may be at most a dime cheaper around here. But still people lineup. Nearer my house the busiest stores are the big ones with all the amenities. They always seem a bit more expensive. If your lining up to save 1.50 a week on gas then you can’t afford a new EV anyway.
 
I honestly don’t believe you people drive way out of your way or line up for gas. People make fun of the south east, but I’ve never seen anyone have to get in the communist, bread line to fill up a car ha ha. No wonder EV’s sound good. We live in different worlds.

Ps- my built up location is rural South Carolina. There is a field full of cows a couple miles away.
 
SC Maintenance said:
Costco’s may be at most a dime cheaper around here. But still people lineup. Nearer my house the busiest stores are the big ones with all the amenities. They always seem a bit more expensive. If your lining up to save 1.50 a week on gas then you can’t afford a new EV anyway.
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Can easily be 50 cents or more here. Luckily prices have come down almost a dollar, so I am ditching the Tesla...
 
JeffKeryk said:
I have said a million times these cars are not for everyone and not for every use.
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Won't help if people are only regurgitating this stuff because of culture war.

Everyone needs to make an informed decision and if that is for a petroleum fueled vehicle, so be it. If it's voting for xyz candidate to stop the EPA mandates, so be it. There aren't really any new viewpoints being hashed out here.

What I object to is people presenting opinions as reality, and that charging and battery life issues can't be worked around.
 
UncleDave said:
The ICE version of the "drive it till its out of fuel" game is when you suck up all the crud sloshing around on the very bottom of a tank or burn out the fuel pump trying to keep starting it when it depends on the fuel to keep cool.
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Technically thats possible I suppose, but I know family members who have ran out of gas more times than I can count (due to a broke fuel gage they didn't want to replace) then they refill with a gas can in their trunk, but never, ever had to replace the fuel pump.

Point is, fuel pump failures due to running out of gas are extremely rare. They are not nearly as fragile as rumors have it. If they were, there would be lots more warnings and complaints about it.
 
People are constantly going through their lives unprepared. Just look at everytime a hurricane warning is issued. They're all lined up to buy plywood, batteries, drinking water, canned goods and most every other necessity.

Gas lines are everywhere. You would think if you live in hurricane country, you would have that at the start of every hurricane season. But most everyone waits until the last minute.

EV's represent an even bigger problem for these people.
 
billt460 said:
People are constantly going through their lives unprepared. Just look at everytime a hurricane warning is issued. They're all lined up to buy plywood, batteries, drinking water, canned goods and most every other necessity.

Gas lines are everywhere. You would think if you live in hurricane country, you would have that at the start of every hurricane season. But most everyone waits until the last minute.

EV's represent an even bigger problem for these people.
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Leaving a car connected to external power and charging overnight is something that I'd think most EV drivers do. Certainly easier than dealing with gas lines before a storm hits, which I've actually done while I was on vacation.
 
billt460 said:
People are constantly going through their lives unprepared. Just look at everytime a hurricane warning is issued. They're all lined up to buy plywood, batteries, drinking water, canned goods and most every other necessity.

Gas lines are everywhere. You would think if you live in hurricane country, you would have that at the start of every hurricane season. But most everyone waits until the last minute.

EV's represent an even bigger problem for these people.
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Yup. I started a thread about being tired of helping rich people that failed to plan, power outages, fires, snow, heat...they fail almost yearly.

An EV would be just one more catatrasophe to these people who wont ever figure it out regardless of whats in their lives.

To most other people - a car thats ready to go with a full tank every day is a great time and potential lifesaver.
 
gfh77665 said:
Already addressed this. A dead battery can be jumped off in 2 min. or replaced in 15 min. A real non-issue.
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A dead battery could be jumped in 2 min - if you can get someone to do it. It was an issue.
 
KrisZ said:
Reading some of the responses I gather not many know what the Ohm’s law is?
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I'm special... Laws don't apply to me. ;)


Ohms-law-cartoon-cropped.webp
 
gfh77665 said:
Already addressed this. A dead battery can be jumped off in 2 min. or replaced in 15 min. A real non-issue.
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If you have cables and another car, a battery pack or a spare battery and tools.
Not to mention just how dead your battery is...

But you are making my point; going out in sub zero weather in a vehicle not ready is simply a bad decision.
 
EVs can be very good for some drivers if used for only shorter trips with at home charging every other evening or so.

Drivers needing to stray far from home needing to rely on public chargers, not so much. I would almost hazard to say totally wrong if going on very long trips covering hundreds of miles a day in the summer, or only a couple of hundred when the temperature dips well below freezing.

Fan boys want to try to say it is perfectly acceptable on long trips to find chargers but the evidence seems to suggest not.
 
SeaJay said:
EVs can be very good for some drivers if used for only shorter trips with at home charging every other evening or so.

Drivers needing to stray far from home needing to rely on public chargers, not so much. I would almost hazard to say totally wrong if going on very long trips covering hundreds of miles a day in the summer, or only a couple of hundred when the temperature dips well below freezing.

Fan boys want to try to say it is perfectly acceptable on long trips to find chargers but the evidence seems to suggest not.
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Please post your evidence. A Tesla will plan your route based on Supercharger availability including out of service and currently in use.
I am not saying an EV is the best by any means, but like any tool you need to use it as intended.
 
SeaJay said:
EVs can be very good for some drivers if used for only shorter trips with at home charging every other evening or so.

Drivers needing to stray far from home needing to rely on public chargers, not so much. I would almost hazard to say totally wrong if going on very long trips covering hundreds of miles a day in the summer, or only a couple of hundred when the temperature dips well below freezing.

Fan boys want to try to say it is perfectly acceptable on long trips to find chargers but the evidence seems to suggest not.
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Yeah that dog dont hunt.

Even a first timer hater journalist can do it - in the winter
 
SeaJay said:
EVs can be very good for some drivers if used for only shorter trips with at home charging every other evening or so.

Drivers needing to stray far from home needing to rely on public chargers, not so much. I would almost hazard to say totally wrong if going on very long trips covering hundreds of miles a day in the summer, or only a couple of hundred when the temperature dips well below freezing.

Fan boys want to try to say it is perfectly acceptable on long trips to find chargers but the evidence seems to suggest not.
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Not really. I know few people with Model 3s that routinely make the trip from Austin to the Gulf Of Mexico (Corpus Christi, Galveston), that’s roughly 200miles each way, as a weekend family trip to the beach. They don’t need to do any special planning besides starting with a full charge at home.
 
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