What should I service this 10L80 at?

[redhat]

On the 24 Tahoe with the 10L80 transmission. I’m trying to plan ahead and form a service interval plan.

I am only at 10k miles. I know I’m very early on, but I love this truck and want to keep it for a long time.

I guess I’m trying to decide:

1. What should the first service be at?
2. Should the filter be changed at this first interval? Fluid only?
3. Should subsequent services be the same mileage intervals?
4. Filter every time, or only every so often?

If no to a filter every time, perhaps I should change to a pan with a drain or maybe I’ll have my welder FIL weld a drain bung to the pan.

Wonder if an aftermarket pan or a drain added to the OE pan would make GM void a warranty in the event of blowing up a trans.

I come from the world of servicing a 4L60E every 20k with drain and fills and every so often a filter… with long healthy trans life. For example I don’t like letting fluid get nasty. I feel you keep the fluid clean they’ll stay healthy.

 

[MolaKule]

On the 24 Tahoe with the 10L80 transmission. I’m trying to plan ahead and form a service interval plan.

I am only at 10k miles. I know I’m very early on, but I love this truck and want to keep it for a long time.

I guess I’m trying to decide:

1. What should the first service be at?
2. Should the filter be changed at this first interval? Fluid only?
3. Should subsequent services be the same mileage intervals?
4. Filter every time, or only every so often?

If no to a filter every time, perhaps I should change to a pan with a drain or maybe I’ll have my welder FIL weld a drain bung to the pan.

Wonder if an aftermarket pan or a drain added to the OE pan would make GM void a warranty in the event of blowing up a trans.

I come from the world of servicing a 4L60E every 20k with drain and fills and every so often a filter… with long healthy trans life. For example I don’t like letting fluid get nasty. I feel you keep the fluid clean they’ll stay healthy.

What is your driving routine?
Will you be pulling any loads with the Tahoe?

I would do a drain and refill now to refresh the additive package and to remove some particulates.

Then at 30k change the filter as well with another drain and refill. This assumes you are not pulling loads.

 

[martinq]

I would do first service within the first year, maybe at 5k. Drop the pan to inspect and clean along with the magnets, annually, until the magnets stay "clean", then move to bi/tri annual as needed.

Find service recommendations for "severe" service and use those as a guide.

Once the break-in is complete your service should be less frequent. It's most imimportant up front, in the first year(s).

 

[redhat]

What is your driving routine?
Will you be pulling any loads with the Tahoe?

I would do a drain and refill now to refresh the additive package and to remove some particulates.

Then at 30k change the filter as well with another drain and refill. This assumes you are not pulling loads.

Driving routine would be majority of the time 3 way mix of interstate/hjghway, backroads highway 45mph+ with some decent grades and hills and then the last 3rd being city/suburban areas of mostly flat 25-45mph.

Towing, yes. Not as much during winter but in summer, every other weekend maybe a trip or two towing potentially up to a couple hours away with 4-5k in tow. Sometimes in town about a half hour of travel. Mainly spring through fall.

 

[ctechbob]

What @MolaKule said is pretty good advice.

I know for a fact that the Ford version of the '10' series is extremely sensitive, valve body wise, and you do well to keep it as clean as possible. I've heard hints, that even though GM's programming is better than Ford's, that their valve bodies have some of the same issues. Doesn't have as much to do with keeping the additive package in good shape so much as it is keeping micro-particulates out of the thing.

I'm a bit extreme with my process as I do a D&F every 10k and filters every 60. The GM and Ford filters are both pretty nice but you still don't want them loading up and restricting flow too much.

 

[TheOilWizard]

What @MolaKule said is pretty good advice.

The GM and Ford filters are both pretty nice but you still don't want them loading up and restricting flow too much.

Not to get off topic too much, but is this a realistic concern with modern transmissions? I'm curious if an otherwise healthy transmission would eventually load up a filter to the point where it restricts flow. IMO, and again, only my opinion, these filters should last the life of the transmission. If it loads up with wear metals and debris enough to restrict flow, it seems like it would be experiencing mechanical failure anyways.

 

[martinq]

Not to get off topic too much, but is this a realistic concern with modern transmissions? I'm curious if an otherwise healthy transmission would eventually load up a filter to the point where it restricts flow. IMO, and again, only my opinion, these filters should last the life of the transmission. If it loads up with wear metals and debris enough to restrict flow, it seems like it would be experiencing mechanical failure anyways.

In my experience with Ford transmissions from 2014 I would say changing the filter is a waste. The 10 speed could be completely different.

In either case the magnets are probably the more important part. Keep the magnets clean and they will continue to pull metal from the fluid 24hrs a day. Ford went from using one magnet in the pan, to two and then three. I always add a few extra if I can.

 

[ctechbob]

Not to get off topic too much, but is this a realistic concern with modern transmissions? I'm curious if an otherwise healthy transmission would eventually load up a filter to the point where it restricts flow. IMO, and again, only my opinion, these filters should last the life of the transmission. If it loads up with wear metals and debris enough to restrict flow, it seems like it would be experiencing mechanical failure anyways.

I would say that these new 8-9-10 speed transmissions are MORE likely to load up a filter since they're doing a whole lot more shifting, so the clutches are cycling a lot more often. Stock-for-stock, they're also being asked to deal with more torque on a regular basis and do it with fewer friction surfaces.

I do think you're right though that the filter is a minor concern over straight up getting the particles out of the unit with new fluid. Apparently a lot of valve body wear is being caused by particles the filters and magnets are not catching.

 

[TheOilWizard]

I would say that these new 8-9-10 speed transmissions are MORE likely to load up a filter since they're doing a whole lot more shifting, so the clutches are cycling a lot more often. Stock-for-stock, they're also being asked to deal with more torque on a regular basis and do it with fewer friction surfaces.

I do think you're right though that the filter is a minor concern over straight up getting the particles out of the unit with new fluid. Apparently a lot of valve body wear is being caused by particles the filters and magnets are not catching.

Isn’t the 10R80 filter considerably larger than the 6R80? I think you may be right, but I would also like to think manufactures accounted for that with higher capacity filters.

 

[clinebarger]

In my experience with Ford transmissions from 2014 I would say changing the filter is a waste. The 10 speed could be completely different.

In either case the magnets are probably the more important part. Keep the magnets clean and they will continue to pull metal from the fluid 24hrs a day. Ford went from using one magnet in the pan, to two and then three. I always add a few extra if I can.

A lot of the debris shed by 10L80/10R80 units is Aluminum.

 

[ctechbob]

Isn’t the 10R80 filter considerably larger than the 6R80? I think you may be right, but I would also like to think manufactures accounted for that with higher capacity filters.

Not familiar with the 6R80, but the '10X' filters are big, and nice, but still don't filter as well as they need to in order to keep valve body wear and sticking down.

I know the pitchforks are going to come out when I post this (Because everyone seems to hate YouTube), but there is a LOT of good information in this talking video from someone in the aftermarket that seems to be putting some effort in to solving some of the '10X' problems. A lot of it lines up with things I've learned from other sources. Yes, his flat bill hat is rediculous, but the information is sound. Speed it up to 1.75-2x as it is a bit slow.

I have bookmarked a few interesting areas of his 'talk'



Mainly. It doesn't take much to knock these things for a loop, keep your fluid clean.

Links below are at specific sections of the video:


Talking about solenoids.


Talking about Ford/GM 10R80/10L90 and more sticky valves


10 Speed Shift oddities (hint, it's a slow valve body)


Small particles in the valve body.

 

[TheOilWizard]

Not familiar with the 6R80, but the '10X' filters are big, and nice, but still don't filter as well as they need to in order to keep valve body wear and sticking down.

I know the pitchforks are going to come out when I post this (Because everyone seems to hate YouTube), but there is a LOT of good information in this talking video from someone in the aftermarket that seems to be putting some effort in to solving some of the '10X' problems. A lot of it lines up with things I've learned from other sources. Yes, his flat bill hat is rediculous, but the information is sound. Speed it up to 1.75-2x as it is a bit slow.

By “higher capacity” I was referring to the filters ability to hold material, and most importantly, the amount. As far as efficiency is concerned, no argument there. I’ve seen many respected members basically refer to them as rock catchers. But think we both agree that changing the filter isn’t going to help filtering efficiency, and it likely decreases efficiency for a period of time.

 

[ctechbob]

By “higher capacity” I was referring to the filters ability to hold material, and most importantly, the amount. As far as efficiency is concerned, no argument there. I’ve seen many respected members basically refer to them as rock catchers. But think we both agree that changing the filter isn’t going to help filtering efficiency, and it likely decreases efficiency for a period of time.

They are quite a bit better than rock catchers, just not good enough. I tore mine apart when I changed it a while back and for a transmission filter, it is impressive.

The GM version isn't identical, but it is very very close.


Originally, as designed, it had two different media types, one more porous for cold flow and a finer media for at temp operation. (That media configuration survives) They originally designed a flap to switch between the two, but did away with it shortly after launch.

Close up of the 'fine' filter material.

Internal magnet that I wiped a portion of clean.

The 'fine' section.

The 'course' section and magnet location.

 

[TheOilWizard]

They are quite a bit better than rock catchers, just not good enough. I tore mine apart when I changed it a while back and for a transmission filter, it is impressive.

The GM version isn't identical, but it is very very close.


Originally, as designed, it had two different media types, one more porous for cold flow and a finer media for at temp operation. They originally designed a flap to switch between the two, but did away with it shortly after

Very nice. Thanks for the C&P!
I’ll be servicing the Explorer 10R60 soon but don’t think I’ll even bother dropping the pan. About 45K miles on the original fluid.

 

[ctechbob]

Very nice. Thanks for the C&P!
I’ll be servicing the Explorer 10R60 soon but don’t think I’ll even bother dropping the pan. About 45K miles on the original fluid.

Yep, sooner rather than later for sure.

I dropped my pan to do the PPE pan. Nice having the drain plug, but an expensive option for sure.

That and someone on the Ranger board developed a bespoke dipstick for us. My changes take less time than changing the engine oil.

 

[MolaKule]

A lot of the debris shed by 10L80/10R80 units is Aluminum.

I would only add that some of the particulate matter can be in the form of clutch particles as well. Since they have a resin binder, they can stick solenoid valves.

The dispersant chemistry in an additive package helps to keep these particles in suspension.

Refreshing the ATF periodically refreshes the dispersant chemistry.

 

[CoachRoss07]

On the 24 Tahoe with the 10L80 transmission. I’m trying to plan ahead and form a service interval plan.

I am only at 10k miles. I know I’m very early on, but I love this truck and want to keep it for a long time.

I guess I’m trying to decide:

1. What should the first service be at?
2. Should the filter be changed at this first interval? Fluid only?
3. Should subsequent services be the same mileage intervals?
4. Filter every time, or only every so often?

If no to a filter every time, perhaps I should change to a pan with a drain or maybe I’ll have my welder FIL weld a drain bung to the pan.

Wonder if an aftermarket pan or a drain added to the OE pan would make GM void a warranty in the event of blowing up a trans.

I come from the world of servicing a 4L60E every 20k with drain and fills and every so often a filter… with long healthy trans life. For example I don’t like letting fluid get nasty. I feel you keep the fluid clean they’ll stay healthy.

1. Change Every 25-30K

2. Always change filters, regardless who says not to

3. Subsequent service? Maybe rear diff but honestly I would run that at least 50K.

Honestly I would not tap a drain plug on it until after warranty. Trust me. It just saves the additional headache.

 

[burbguy82]

I would do a drain and refill now to refresh the additive package and to remove some particulates.

Then at 30k change the filter as well with another drain and refill. This assumes you are not pulling loads.

I second this. I did the exact same thing with my 3500.

 

[Marcozi]

Is this transmission made by Ford or is it made by ZF?

 

[rijndael]

Ford makes their version in the Livonia transmission plant.
GM's version is in the Romulus powertrain plant, in Romulus, Michigan.