What`s the Holy Grail of additives?

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What`s the end all-be all *best* anti wear additive in motor oil? Is it moly? Zinc? Seems moly is the one I keep hearing about lately. What oils have the highest moly content? I know Havoline,Formula Shell,and Royal Purple have large amounts. Any others?
 
RedLine has major amounts too. I have seen UOA's on the same vehicles where they switch from oils with high moly to ones with little or no moly and have better results so I am not totally sold that moly is the "holy grail" of additives. Look at all the great PP UOA's...not a whole lot. I think it is the ratio and the quality of the base-oil that is most important.
 
Originally Posted By: chubbs1
RedLine has major amounts too. I have seen UOA's on the same vehicles where they switch from oils with high moly to ones with little or no moly and have better results so I am not totally sold that moly is the "holy grail" of additives. Look at all the great PP UOA's...not a whole lot. I think it is the ratio and the quality of the base-oil that is most important.
+1 True true. If you look at a UOA of WPP SuperTech or Valvoline which has 0ppm of moly they have some of the best wear numbers around. Possible relation? Id probably think Zinc is the most important additive considering every oil has a lot of it and its going to be there no matter the brand.
 
Originally Posted By: volk06
Havoline doesn't have moly anymore.


Do you have to get the SM Havoline for the moly?
 
Cool! I bought some 10W40 SM when Oreilly was having the $2.69 sale. I`ve noticed alot of 10W40s stay SM rated. RP also told me their 10W40 contains the most anti-wear out of all their other weights (their street oil). Do 10W40s normally contain more zinc/moly since they`re not startburst oils?
 
Personally, I pick an oil based on the start-up and operational viscosity more than the additive pack. I think it's a bit of a fool's errand trying to outguess manufacturers when it comes to what additives work "best".

While I realize that single UOA's tell at best an incomplete picture of engine wear, there are literally hundreds of UOA's on here which demonstrate that any recommended oil changed at a reasonable interval will protect your engine adequately. But I haven't seen any data, or even trends, to suggest that one oil's additive pack is really superior to the other.

So, I really don't think there's a 'holy grail' of additives. The organic moly compounds used in large quantities by a few oils seem to have a lower COFriction, which will (marginally) help fuel economy, but I doubt there will be a quantifiable difference in wear.

I'm generally not one to just blindly trust companies, but the oils have to meet certain standards for wear protection, and all approved modern name-brand oils seem to meet those standards, regardless of the additives used. And I think the chemists in the additive business are more equipped to make those determinations than I am.
 
Originally Posted By: JOD
...I think it's a bit of a fool's errand trying to outguess manufacturers when it comes to what additives work "best".....

...oils have to meet certain standards for wear protection, and all approved modern name-brand oils seem to meet those standards, regardless of the additives used. And I think the chemists in the additive business are more equipped to make those determinations than I am.


I agree 100% with these points. When it comes to mixing additives and base oils, I'd tend to trust the lubricant engineers who actually formulate the oils we all use, rather than some of the self-proclaimed "experts" you'll find on Internet forums.
 
ZDDP has been proven over time very effective, how much in a particular engine is debatable. I'm not fond of API SN/SM levels of ZDDP, and use lubricants with API SL levels of ZDDP (or greater, but not race oil levels).
 
Originally Posted By: RPMster
Originally Posted By: JOD
...I think it's a bit of a fool's errand trying to outguess manufacturers when it comes to what additives work "best".....

...oils have to meet certain standards for wear protection, and all approved modern name-brand oils seem to meet those standards, regardless of the additives used. And I think the chemists in the additive business are more equipped to make those determinations than I am.


I agree 100% with these points. When it comes to mixing additives and base oils, I'd tend to trust the lubricant engineers who actually formulate the oils we all use, rather than some of the self-proclaimed "experts" you'll find on Internet forums.

thumbsup2.gif
 
The two so-called "Holy-Grails" right now are friction modifiers and oxidation inhibitors.

Friction modifiers for tenth's of a mile increase in fleet mpg's and oxidation inhibitors (anti-oxidants) for longer life, and fewer sludge precursors.

Moly is only one friction modifier. Most of the new friction modifier are organic polymers that will not show up in $25 VOA analysis.

Also not showing up in $25 VOA's is another component which contributes to better cleanliness, special ashless dispersants and detergents.

The current level of longer-life ZDDP anti-wear levels are sufficient for good engine and cat protection in daily drivers.

For racing engines, go with the VR1's, Mobil 1 Racing, Z-Rod and others.
 
If you like to drive your car hard and fast,is a high moly oil the best to protect the engine`s internals? Or is zddp better? I keep hearing people say that "moly high" oils run smoother/quieter,etc.
 
As far as brand of additive, I like the old VSET 32oz. High in moly and zinc/phos. Best of all it was thin. Not like the honey like stuff elsewhere.
 
I'd say both Moly and ZDDP. Moly adds a a slight reduction in friction, seals up rings a bit, and tends to quiet a engine, but I don't think it is a great wear inhibitor. ZDDP is a great wear inhibitor and high stress protector.

I had a tiny bit of low rpm knocking at very lite throttle in my wife's car when cold. Call it very faint piston knock. A can of Lubro Moly and the knock is gone. I combine this with GC, which is a higher stress, higher ZDDP oil, and the results seem to be really good.
 
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