What oil for 97 Volvo 850 & 08 Corolla in 100 deg?

[KitaCam]

Well, Bill, since your are not in my car and can only speculate, I won't try to explain, other than to say that I have only responded with what I have observed on a daily basis with my car here in Florida where I'm driving in 60-80° AM temps

 

[grndslm]

Originally Posted By: KitaCam
Like your mom...I run 4-mile trips daily and...

I'm actually going to correct what I said earlier about 67% of her trips being under a mile. To re-emphasize how frequent and short her trips are.... I'd guesstimate that MORE than 50% of her trips will actually be LESS than half a mile. Pretty much 3 stop signs is all she'll see.

Her car will hardly ever see operating temps compared to the number of times it will never even begin to register on the dash.

Originally Posted By: KitaCam
1. the camry's 4cyl engine gets to operating temperature in 2 miles....quicker with PP than PYB....the camry is a manual tranny and I run it @ 2500-3k RPM for most of the 4 miles.

If you're running it close to 3k RPM. It could be possible.

I'm not sure what year Camry you're referring to, but before I even pulled out of the parking lot to test this Corolla, I noticed a very high idle around 2k RPM that gradually decreased as the engine warmed up. I sat there and Googled this high idle on my phone, and it's apparently the norm for this 9th Gen Corolla. Corollas are known for their mileage, and it's also known that cars get better mileage when at normal operating temps. Soo.... that makes sense.

Some people have complained that the 2k rpm is kinda rough for an engine that's just starting to pull oil thru the pick up tube. This is the reason that I kinda wanted synthetic on the Corolla. I was hoping that a thinner, lighter oil perhaps would be able to pump slightly faster at crank.... because the initial high idle is kinda scary if one is worried about protection & reliability above all else.

Sooo... with a 2k RPM high idle at crank and MORE than 50% of trips being LESS than 0.5 miles, there's no other options than conventional 5w-30 changed out every 6 months?? No magical, lighter weight oil to pump, flow faster??

I'm almost disappointed with BITOG, today. Almost.

 

[Astro14]

Grand Slam - the 5W40 covers all the bases in the '92 300E...because it recommends everything from mono-grade 20 to 10W50 and 20W50, with 10W30, 10W40, 15W40, 5W30 and a few others mixed in...that's just how MB rolled back then...I was more answering Skyship than recommending anything for you...

Since 5W30 is recommended for all temps in the Corolla...it becomes easy for that car, 5W30 or 0W30.

And while I think highly of M1 0W40 (great UOAs and the only oil in my V-12) and the PU 5W40 (great UOA on that one too), what I run is what I can buy on sale...and most of what you see in my sig (M1 0W40 is the exception), I got on sale for $1 - $2/QT...

Cheers,
Astro

 

[KitaCam]

Kitacamry is an 05 with the 2AZ-FE 4cyl engine...and 5-speed MT...now with 100k miles.

I start rolling out of my parking space (with no acceleration) about 30sec after starting up to put the engine in gear so it won't freely accelerate at high RPMs...I keep the RPMs under 3k for the 1st run through gears...and for the most of the 4mi cruise around 2500 (3rd gear) most of the way...on longer runs I would have RPMs at about 2-2.5k...

<1-mi. runs are NOT good...I think it might be a good idea to let the car idle for just a few minutes before your mom takes off...to give the engine SOME time to warm up...though as you say condensation is still a concern...it would be good if it could be highway run once a week.

 

[OVERKILL]

KitaCam:

I think you may be referencing coolant temp in thinking your engine is up to operating temperature. I can assure you that the oil temp doesn't necessarily mirror that of the coolant. I believe that's what Bill is getting at with his comments.

 

[grndslm]

Originally Posted By: KitaCam
it would be good if it could be highway run once a week.

What would the purpose of the weekly highway runs be?? Or what will this be doing for the oil, rather?

Looks like we'll be trying 5w-30 in the Volvo and 0w-30 in the Corolla... in whatever's on sale.

I've got an $8 off coupon for two 5-qt jugs of Valvoline, but I hear the Pennzoil Platinum is cleaner.

 

[crazyoildude]

I have to agree with Bill two miles is not enough to fully warm up an engine in any temperature.

 

[Astro14]

Oil temp lags coolant temp considerably...it generally took 15 minutes of driving to get the oil temp up to operating temp (typically 85 C in one of my cars with a gauge)...so, a good highway run of 30 minutes allows you to have the oil at that temp for at least 15 minutes...which would drive off the condensation built up during short trips...

I would gladly use a 0W30 in the Volvo too...many 0W30s are actually thicker at operating temp than 5W30s or even 10W30s...it wasn't always this way, used to be that a 10W30 was thicker, and the Volvo forum guys are clearly unaware of how things have changed...or they wouldn't be recommending a 10W30

 

[grndslm]

Thank you for the help, Astro!!!

The pleasure has been all mine.

 

[skyship]

In my opinion:
I must let the folks in Australia and Dubai that use 20/50's in engines that are run on 5/20 or 5/30's in the US know that oil temps are constant in a hot climate!
It does depend slightly on the type of cooling system, but when it is hot the average oil temp does rise, although the coolant temp may be constant as it is in my Volvo. The higher oil temp results in the thermostat opening further, so you may not see an increase in coolant temp.
The required viscosity depends on 4 main factors, oil temp (Relates to outside temp and rpm), engine load (Relates to the force on the bearings and required film thickness), required OCI (Must allow for shearing down) AND the condition of the engine (Worn bearings need thicker oil films).
So for a new engine in the US for example that has short OCI's and is not driven too hard it does not matter too much which oil grade is used, but one of the most important factors is age and a compression check does not say much about main bearings, so once you get to 10 years or 100K miles (perhaps 200K if you only drive highway etc), then it's time to look at some EU oil finders and look up the exact engine to see if there is any reason for not moving up a grade. Obviously if an oil does not shear much like GC 0/30 or Castrol Edge 5/30 then that will help, BUT it won't stop fuel contamination which can be an issue from thinning the oil (Fuel contamination of engine oil is a very close second to anti freeze induced lubrication failures).
It's always best to err on the thick side, hence I don't know of any high time Volvos or Corrolas using 5/30's. The better full synthetics are more expensive and if you don't do long OCI's they are not needed, so I would just use a major brand dino 5/40, BUT if you want to go down the expensive road, then Castrol Edge 5/30, GC 0/30 or even M1 0/40 (It's a low 40), Shell Helix 5/30 or Liqui Moly Synthoil 5/30 will all do a good job.
In economic terms the basic Mobil 10/40 or GTX 10/40 would be my choice, or just look for a major brand special offer.

PS. Can folks please give their full engine type, because it does allow me to use an oil guide correctly. The Volvo 850 has about 6 different engine, although the common ones are approved for both X/30 and X/40's including the 10/40 dinos.
08 1.6 VVTi data from Castrol:
Alternative recommendations, Engine (Petrol), >2000: 38°C, 5W-30; -18°C to >38°C, 10W-30; -12°C to >38°C, 15W-40; -7°C to >38°C, 20W-50

So in my opinion both engines should be using an X/40 or Castrol Edge 5/30 (Or Mobil, Shell equivalents).

 

[grndslm]

skyship,

I said which engine the Volvo had in the first post -- 2.4L, non-turbo.

I looked on the Castrol Guide, and the 2.4L is not mentioned. That guide is clearly not designed for American automobiles, as I'm fairly certain a 2.0L was never released in America.

Anyway... I took a look at the specs for the 2.5L, non-turbo... since they should be fairly similar, and this is what it says:

Quote:
Alternative recommendations, 2000-02: span>; -20°C to 40°C, 10W-30/10W-40; -15°C to >40°C, 15W-40; -5°C to >40°C, 20W-40; 0°C to 30°C, 30; 10°C to >40°C, 40


It doesn't particularly EXCEED 100 deg very often, so I think that those recommendations of 5w-30 for the Corolla and 5w-40 for the Volvo are probly correct. This is likely why the guys on Volvo forums suggest 10w-30 in winter and 10w-40 in the summer.

Two more questions I've got...

(1) Why even bother with a 10w-40 if a 5w-40 will work just fine?? It's interesting to note that a 5w-40 is recommended to 40 deg C, a 10w-40 is recommended to 40 deg C, but a 15w-40 is recommended in EXCESS of 40 deg C. I guess the idea is to just find the optimum range, and my Volvo would be either 5w-40 or 10w-30 in the winter and 10w-40 in the summer. But again... if a 5w-40 will work all year round....???

(2) Are there any other oil guides like this Castrol guide?? Preferably one that has the American version of released vehicles. . . . That Castrol guide will come in handy, but the more the merrier.

 

[Kuato]

grndslm, you asked about Amsoil discount in the initial post but I didn't see that addressed.

You can get the same discount by becoming a Preferred Customer. It costs $20 a year, but you'll make that up in your first purchase. I've been a PC for several years, and have been ordering online for much of that time, directly from Amsoil. I've skipped a year here and there when I had a substantial stash.

 

[cathy]

what is a flame trap? Does this apply to all/current Volvos

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: cathy
what is a flame trap? Does this apply to all/current Volvos


Flame trap is Volvo-speak for the PCV system. All the FWD Volvos have variations of the "white block" DOHC engine with either single or dual VVT and with various turbo options, but they all suffer from a PCV system that will sludge up if poor quality oil is used...

Regrettably, the dealers in North America used bulk 5w30 for many years, oil that didn't meet the ACEA specs for Volvos, and that meant that owners who were good about maintenance would still get stuck with the flame trap problems later in the cars lives...it's common among used Volvos as a result...

 

[Astro14]

grndslm - what you're seeing is old thinking on oil...in the old days, a 10w30 would have better viscosity retention than a 5w30...so it was a better choice for higher heat, or so the logic went, and therefore, in high heat, a 15w40 was better than 10w40...but oil has improved, and the Owners manual become a bit anachronistic (so have the forums) as a result.

If it says to use an Xw40 in high heat conditions, you'll be fine with a 0w40 or a 5w40 like the Rotella T6. I've used the Mobil 1 5w40 in the car too with good result...

 

[JohnathanDm]

use 0w40 Mobil 1 and call it a night! thats what im doing to my dads 2001 volvo s80 2.9 i can't wait to see how it runs after the ladie who owned it kept putting 10w40 coastal oil..

 

[grndslm]

Originally Posted By: cathy
what is a flame trap? Does this apply to all/current Volvos

This thing... http://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volvo-pcv-breather-system-kit-850-s70-v70-non-turbo-850t300#reviews

My camshaft seals started leaking, so I finally decided to check out timing belt, which is fairly cracked, and my water pump is just BARELY starting to leak... so there's just a few things I need to do on this Volvo.

Had to order $400 worth of parts, but when I'm done.... this car should be good for close to 60k-70k miles without ANY maintenance, excluding oil changes. So... I'll start checking things out when I've got 350,000 miles on the dash.

 

[grndslm]

And yes... I will more than likely be using the Rotella T6 5w-40 or the Mobil 1 0w-40 once I get this maintenance stuff taken care of. Will do a bit more research, comparing the two and see where I end up.

Since my mom takes so many short trips in the Corolla, she will just get the white bottle Valvoline 5w-30 with two OCIs in early April and October. At least for the next year. Just bought 10 quarts for $25 after tax. $2.50 a quart ain't too bad.

Will be stocking up on the T6 5w40 and/or M1 0w40 when I manage to catch it on sale.

 

[grndslm]

Just thought of something.....

Theoretically, wouldn't a 10w-30 warm an engine up quicker than a 5w-30???

 

[KitaCam]

Originally Posted By: grndslm
Just thought of something.....

Theoretically, wouldn't a 10w-30 warm an engine up quicker than a 5w-30???


The thinner 5w oil should come up to temp more quickly, shouldn't it?