Had one of these at the Paper Mill for recycled paper. One driver had his trailer air bags too high and the trailer went into the Hopper about 4'. And the Hopper only opens a "window" as the truck is raised, so lowering the truck closes the "window". Really a cluster.... We hated the mess this operation made as the drivers had to open the doors and then finish backing up, paper went everywhere. Originally designed for 400 TPD, they upgraded lots of equipment and took it to 2000 TPD. We needed a truck every 15 minutes 24/7 to keep up. Didn't happen often enough on nites and weekends. The company lost a lot of $ when it shut down after just a few years due to economics. The cost of recycled paper went thru the roof, and the cheaper grades were old wet garbage that dropped the yield and quality. Newspapers shutting down, etc.
What oil "clings" best to an infrequently run engine?
- Thread starter Zack1978
- Start date
4WD
$50 site donor 2025
Tain't funny McGeeDefinitely give Triax lubricants a try they have the additives needed to cling in your engine.
MolaKule
Staff member
@RDY4WAR
"...Least we forget, STP got slapped by the FTC for false advertising and had to pay over $800k in fines, but what's $800k when you profited several million a year? They could sell that bottle for $1 and would still be almost all profit. There's nothing in STP Oil Treatment that will improve rust prevention. It contains barely a trace of any additive at all, much less anything that'll prevent rust/corrosion or oxidation. It's just going to dilute what beneficial additives are already in your oil."
The bolded text is an important point. STP is composed of a majority Olefin Copolymer (OCP) and not even a good one. It has no chemistry for rust inhibition or metal deactivators.
STP and other thickeners are for smokers on their last leg, and I am not referring to the barbeque type.
The suggestions to do occasional startups not only recoats your cylinder walls but recharges your battery and seems to be the best approach.
"...Least we forget, STP got slapped by the FTC for false advertising and had to pay over $800k in fines, but what's $800k when you profited several million a year? They could sell that bottle for $1 and would still be almost all profit. There's nothing in STP Oil Treatment that will improve rust prevention. It contains barely a trace of any additive at all, much less anything that'll prevent rust/corrosion or oxidation. It's just going to dilute what beneficial additives are already in your oil."
The bolded text is an important point. STP is composed of a majority Olefin Copolymer (OCP) and not even a good one. It has no chemistry for rust inhibition or metal deactivators.
STP and other thickeners are for smokers on their last leg, and I am not referring to the barbeque type.
The suggestions to do occasional startups not only recoats your cylinder walls but recharges your battery and seems to be the best approach.
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How long does the antiwear plating last?
Is oil tested to maintain the antiwear properties for a certain number of miles, time, cold starts, etc without being warmed up to refresh the plating?
Is there a point of diminishing returns where a higher level of ZDDP, Moly, etc doesn’t necessarily equate to a higher level of protection by cold start antiwear plating? What are those limits?
Conventional OR Synthetic for better clinging???
Mobil 1
I’m going to give you a non answer, answer:
It depends!
The longest test I could find, was done for 500 hours. And the plating was still there and this was bearing test.
This particular test, was also done at room temperature and air exposed. It was also testing the various alcohol chain lengths of ZDDP for friction properties. So is it directly an engine? No.
So let’s look at other things… let’s take when you should pickle an aircraft engine. Different manufacturers say different things, but generally they recommend using a pickling fluid if you’re going to be inactive for over 30 days. A note on this that is very important, aircraft oils are very, very typically ashless oils - like 99% of them. Which means no ZDDP. (And yes, they’re flat tappet too! Different thread.) So they use other antiwears that, may or may not be as good / effective / etc.
Some aircraft engine manufacturers will extend when you should pickle an engine if you have varnish build up. As, that varnish will protect your engine as well from R&O.
So we can take this for a lower limits however, an essentially uncoated engine, that has never had ZDDP or essentially, other PCEO anti wear & preventatives - is 30 days, sometimes more.
Now let’s look at the other direction. A major bearing manufacturer uses Quaker Chemical’s 5856 BFT1 as their rust prevention product. This is a 1 year rust protection product that is applied at room temperature in a thin coat. Does it have ZDDP in it? No. It’s a specific made rust prevention product. Without going into details that I may, or may not be able to say, it’s a very simple product. They (Quaker) says it’s good for a year to prevent rust once applied in normal storage situations.
Alright. Now let’s look at your engine: Without starting, it’s going to do very little “breathing” - and unless it’s sitting outside, uncovered, your direct chances of moisture getting in are slim. Indirect through humidity changes are what you’re fighting.
Other things to think about: Does your engine have any coatings on the inside from the factory? Metal finishes and such. What sort of material is your engine parts made from? Is there varnish build up in places that will add protection?
So, how long will ZDDP, et al, other antiwear and anti corrosion additives protect in your engine? Great question, no real good “this is it!” Answer. But certainly north of 30 days.
On the maximum side? Depends on too many conditions to say for sure. But my guess is north of a year or more. (Personal guess.)
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
If they want to scam folks and get away with it, that's their business. I don't use the product for rust prevention. I don't even use it in my vehicles. I have another use outside of vehicle engines and that's why I only average one purchase every five years or-so.
Hard to argue with keeping shelf space for 70 years. People are buying it and the cash register never stops. That's what I call a huge success.
- Joined
- May 28, 2014
- Messages
- 2,461
Success?! Nope, it's called being ignorant. People these days don't know what they are purchasing because they are too lazy to actually research anything that they purchase.
Patman
Staff member
Spam has also been on grocery store shelves since 1937, doesn’t make it a good choice either…
You're lucky that truck has good old fashioned electric wire insulation made from good old fashioned petroleum. Any modern car with mouse food around the wires would be all eaten up left sitting so long... and would never run again. No conspiracy there. No way. We can be certain of that.
My Hawaiian mother in law in on her way over and she's bringing a slipper, LOL.
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
If it was causing harm to engines, it wouldn't still be on store shelves and rung-up on store cash registers everyday, after 70 years. Nobody is currently suing Energizer over it and I more-so trusted the brain of Richard Petty's since 1981, over anyone's inside this thread. The STP Oil Treatment is the reason why it's plastered over the family's pro racing circuit since 1981.
I'm done talking this..... especially since I don;t use the product personally. I've bought a couple bottles of Rislone lately and it's a shame I had to pour that stuff inside an engine that contains a sponsored oil of BITOGs. But that's how well Rislone works and I suppose you are probably about to slam that product also?
Rislone and STP Oil Treatment still gets purchased by the thousands every day. But BITOG members inside this thread seem to know negatively different about it's success?...... hahahaha....... alll .0001% of the motor oil supplement buying population?....... hahahaha again.
People still sell 303 tractor hydraulic fluid.
There’s no board of governing for oil additives. You can legally sell junk in a bottle. If people want to buy it, they’re more than welcome to do it. There’s only legal consequences when you claim something that it, can be proved, it does not do.
I've met Richard Petty. I've talked oil with Richard Petty. He doesn't know nor care what's in STP. They just hand him a check. They funded his racing program, that's it. I doubt he ever used the stuff.
How many people are knowledgeable and experienced enough in lubrication and engine wear patterns to find, acknowledge, and properly conclude the root cause of engine sludge, damage, etc...? Very few. Even many reputable engine builders can't do that. If the consumer thinks STP is doing them good, they'll never even consider it being the cause of any issues they may have. Marketing/advertising goes deep into psychology. There's a reason it's a multi-billion dollar industry. Good marketers know how to get inside your head like they seem to have done with you.
Hermann
Site Donor 2023
Bake an original Spam for 30 minutes at 350°. Top with your favorite Ketchup or BBQ sauce. By the way it is Pork Shoulder not pig scraps. Not great for you but can think of things that are worse.
LOL.
The cooking section on BITOG is coming on strong.
The cooking section on BITOG is coming on strong.
SammyChevelleTypeS3
$50 site donor 2023
Is it time to get popcorn ready!?
Shel_B
Site Donor 2023
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2020
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Supporting Andy Granatelli ...