I will be taking the advice about dumping the DEX COOL when my warranty runs out on my wife's 2003 Aztec. I have heard all the stories about how the DEX COOL plays havoc on certain gaskets on the 3.4 Liter engine. Would anyone advice me on what brand and type to switch to when the time comes. Thank you!
What is the best coolant to switch to when I dumped out DEX COOL
- Thread starter Rob Taggs
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Wow! You actually bought an Aztec??
I would recommend (after thoroughly flushing the system) using either Zerex G-05 or Toyota (red) Long-Life coolant. You could, of course, use plain green coolant, but you'll have to flush and refill every couple of years.
Hate to break it to ya, but pretty much all coolants are switching to the long life formula. Prestone, Zerex, Peak, etc... are all now LongLife/Dex-Cool formulas.
next time you are at a parts store, look at the ingredents of the new Prestone (or any current antifreeze) and compare them to Dex-Cool.
The only coolant that is not like that is the older cheap brands that still have soem of the old green style left over.
next time you are at a parts store, look at the ingredents of the new Prestone (or any current antifreeze) and compare them to Dex-Cool.
The only coolant that is not like that is the older cheap brands that still have soem of the old green style left over.
Rob Taggs,
I am thinking the same thing for my next engine coolant change.
I think I would go with Zerex G-05.
Read this: http://www.motor.com/MAGAZINE/Articles/082004_04.html
Not all long-life engine coolant is 'Dexcool'
I am thinking the same thing for my next engine coolant change.
I think I would go with Zerex G-05.
Marlin ,
Read this: http://www.motor.com/MAGAZINE/Articles/082004_04.html
Not all long-life engine coolant is 'Dexcool'
Zerex G-05 is great and very common.
G-11, G-48 are well regarded but hard to find here in NA...the dealers have it but be prepared to pay top $$ for each gallon.
Also remember to dilute it 50:50 with bottled distilled/deionized water over tap stuff.
G-11, G-48 are well regarded but hard to find here in NA...the dealers have it but be prepared to pay top $$ for each gallon.
Also remember to dilute it 50:50 with bottled distilled/deionized water over tap stuff.
You might want to RE-read your own link...quote:
Originally posted by 99 GASE2:
Rob Taggs,
I am thinking the same thing for my next engine coolant change.
I think I would go with Zerex G-05.
Marlin ,
Read this: http://www.motor.com/MAGAZINE/Articles/082004_04.html
Not all long-life engine coolant is 'Dexcool'
"August 2004" and "remember that about 93% of most coolant is ethylene glycol"
That is the OLD stuff.
AGAIN, so read the bottles of all the national name brand coolants like prestone, zerex, peak, etc... Same stuff as Dex-Cool
They are all moving toward that. Even the Wal-Mart brand coolant is the same now.
Marlin I belive you are oversimplifying things somewhat regarding DEX-COOL. ALL the newest Prestones, and ST, too, are essentially a DEX-COOL whether they state GM approval or not - no phosphates, borates, amines, nitrites, or silicates. (There is some room for formulation difference in the GM DEX-COOL spec regarding the hydrated carboxylic acid salt(s) used as corrosion inhibitors.) But that generalization does not apply to Zerex, Peak and other brand extended life formulas you named. Many of these still employ some silicate and/or phophate content which is most assuredly outside the GM DEX-COOL spec. Prestone took their own DEX-COOL formula, dropped the DEX-COOL name and GM imprimatur, dyed it green instead of orange and that's what use as their reformulated standard "yellow-jug" antifreeze/coolant - all but DEX-COOL in name. ST is apparently identical (and probably supplied by Prestone in bulk for rebottling by WalMart's supplier, "Alsip Packaging, Inc.").
BTW, for anyone suspicious of the new ST extended life antifreeze/coolant at WalMart, I've now been running it in my very early '03 Sonata's aluminum block Hyundai V6 for three months. (flushed repeatedly with WalMart's "best" distilled water & changed in mid-August to about 45% concentration according to my Prestone hydrometer - the 2nd anniversary of my car's build date) I've kept close tabs on the new coolant. No cooling problems at all to report and from what I can observe of the radiator core and the appearance of the overflow bottle, both are still gunk-free, and as clean green and transparent as an emerald. No scaling or sediment visible on the metal parts in the radiator, either. Not certain what Hyundai used as factory fill, but since the owner's manual specifies a 2 yr./30,000 mile change schedule, I suspect it was some Korean variation of the traditional silicate green-snot-of-death crap. The Hyundai factory fill coolant drained very slightly cloudy, though it hadn't yet discolored or gelled noticeably. Nevertheless, that slight cloudiness makes me wonder whether I might've nipped something nasty in the making.
BTW, for anyone suspicious of the new ST extended life antifreeze/coolant at WalMart, I've now been running it in my very early '03 Sonata's aluminum block Hyundai V6 for three months. (flushed repeatedly with WalMart's "best" distilled water & changed in mid-August to about 45% concentration according to my Prestone hydrometer - the 2nd anniversary of my car's build date) I've kept close tabs on the new coolant. No cooling problems at all to report and from what I can observe of the radiator core and the appearance of the overflow bottle, both are still gunk-free, and as clean green and transparent as an emerald. No scaling or sediment visible on the metal parts in the radiator, either. Not certain what Hyundai used as factory fill, but since the owner's manual specifies a 2 yr./30,000 mile change schedule, I suspect it was some Korean variation of the traditional silicate green-snot-of-death crap. The Hyundai factory fill coolant drained very slightly cloudy, though it hadn't yet discolored or gelled noticeably. Nevertheless, that slight cloudiness makes me wonder whether I might've nipped something nasty in the making.
the new ford coolant spec is golden yellow. My buddies new cobra has yellow coolant in it.
JH
JH
Marlin, I am going to make it easy for you. The substance that is in Dexcool and Dexcool approved formulas that is not in G-05,Toyota Longlife, Honda Longlife, or Fords Longlife coolant is 2-ethylhexanoic acid. This is a known plastisizer and weaken flastic parts. It is thought buy Daimler Chrysler, Ford, Toyota and Honda to be bad to use in the vicinity of plastics parts. This is also the main culprit in a number of discussions about Dupount Nylon manifolds failing!
So just becasue it is longlife does not mean the chemistry is the same! Some are OAT some are HOAT etc.......
So just becasue it is longlife does not mean the chemistry is the same! Some are OAT some are HOAT etc.......
The Zerex G 05 you can buy in the golden bottle at the autostore is completely clear! Makes it hard to read in the overflow tank. Chrysler/Ford G 05 are dyed, as well as Mercedes G 05.
When I went to the Chrysler dealer, the Mopar coolant they had was labled 5yr/150k mi (they also had 3 year coolant), and no where on the bottle did it mention the spec of "G 05", parts counter person said its dyed an orange-red, and was the latest stuff they were using. I haven't had a chance to check against the Ford coolant.
When I went to the Chrysler dealer, the Mopar coolant they had was labled 5yr/150k mi (they also had 3 year coolant), and no where on the bottle did it mention the spec of "G 05", parts counter person said its dyed an orange-red, and was the latest stuff they were using. I haven't had a chance to check against the Ford coolant.
Another myth that refuses to die... 2-EHA, itself, is NOT specifically a plasticizer. (That magazine article people continue referencing was just plain ill-researched [if at all] on that point.) 2-EHA IS used, however, in synthesizing plasticizers. (2-EHA is also used in packaged foods, cosmetics, and pharmaceuticals - many of which are packaged in plastic - as preservatives/antioxidents.) ALL carboxylic acids (and that means ALL as in those that're used in Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Zerex G-05, Peak Extended Life, DaimlerChrysler, Ford, and MercedesBenz extended life antifreeze concentrates) are used in synthesizing plasticizers, too. I posted elsewhere on this forum the results of my own online research a couple of weeks ago complete with direct product description quotes from various chemical companies that make and market the stock carboxylic acids used in the above mentioned antifreeze products. Do a search with "plasticizer" as your key word for the post.
Minor point of clarification--sodium benzoate, as found in G-05, is not a carboxylic acid per say. Rather, it's a polyunsaturated fat that's the sodium salt of benzoic acid. It does convert into benzoic acid, but only in an acidic environment (e.g., ph less than 7.0). G-05 is designed to have a ph of around 8 when mixed with tap water, with sufficient buffering capacity to keep it from going acidic. Therefore, it's incorrect to say that it's just a matter of which carboxylic acid you want in your extended life antifreeze. Not all extended life antifreezes rely upon carboxylic acids as corrosion inhibitors.
FYI, sodium benzoate is used as a preservative in such things as fruit juice, salad dressings, etc. because of this reaction in low ph. Benzoic acid is a good anti-microbial agent but does not dissolve well in water, unlike sodium benzoate.
FWIW, I did exchange e-mails with Valvoline with regards to an older vehicle ('87 Corvette). They said that their 5/100 (conventional formula), G-05 and MaxLife would be compatible with my pre-extended life antifreeze vehicle. But, they advised against using their ExtremeLife (DexCool-compatible) product--basically saying that if a vehicle did not come from the factory with an extended life OAT coolant that they don't recommend switching to such.
FYI, sodium benzoate is used as a preservative in such things as fruit juice, salad dressings, etc. because of this reaction in low ph. Benzoic acid is a good anti-microbial agent but does not dissolve well in water, unlike sodium benzoate.
FWIW, I did exchange e-mails with Valvoline with regards to an older vehicle ('87 Corvette). They said that their 5/100 (conventional formula), G-05 and MaxLife would be compatible with my pre-extended life antifreeze vehicle. But, they advised against using their ExtremeLife (DexCool-compatible) product--basically saying that if a vehicle did not come from the factory with an extended life OAT coolant that they don't recommend switching to such.
Since your car (van,truck,what IS it?) is a 2003, I wouldn't worry about the infamous gasket problem. They switched to a different gasket.
Plus, if it explodes you can dump it for something that doesn't look like a cheese grater that fell over on its side.
(hey, sorry man that was a cheap shot. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I drive a former rental car 2000 Impala so what do I know...)
Plus, if it explodes you can dump it for something that doesn't look like a cheese grater that fell over on its side.
(hey, sorry man that was a cheap shot. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I drive a former rental car 2000 Impala so what do I know...)
Matt89, It is a high end door stop, not a cheese grater (ha,ha !). The Aztec is believe it or not is classified according to Pontiac as a SRV - Sport Recreational Vehicle. Must give Pontiac a fuzzy feeling about changing wording around to produce a new vehicle class (Class for the Ugliest vehicle around). The Aztec was not my choice, it was my wife's. The blame is solely on her shoulders and poor eye sight! I wanted a Buick Lesabre but, oh no !, had to buy the freak mobile. It will surprise people that it does make up some what in the acceleration. It would put my S-10 to shame. Other points are that it does not eat a drop of oil and zero maintenance due to nothing falling apart in nearly 36,000 miles but, give it time, its American!
Ray H, Thanks!!! I will be sure to read your post!!
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