What is "real music"

[Nick R]

This thread probably isn't what you are expecting. This was brought on by a discussion at work today in the break room. Between two factions. Those who believe that only a human singer/artist can produce REAL music. What do I mean by that? Well simply put, Hatsune Miku. A huge Japanese pop idol. And she's not real. She's a hologram, with a computer generated voice using a program called vocaloid. Some believe that even thought it's computer generate, it's still real music, and she is a real artist. Others feel that because she isn't "real" it isn't real music.

All you have to do is see the number of REAL fans that turned out to see her, both in Japan and her concerts in the US to see how they feel. But is it "real" music?

I think so. I'll let you judge. And yes, those are real people, really singing along, and really cheering for her. Go ahead, listen to it. It's a pretty good song, and a good concert.

 

[Nick R]

Lol I figured BITOG would be an interesting place to discuss this. Guess people lost interest before watching the video. D'oh well.

 

[abycat]

Japan is weird. my vote would be (is music) I'd say the computer is controlled and or made by humans so it would be no different than using DJ equipment.

 

[Nick R]

I was definitely in the "real music" camp. I'm hoping Miku and her creators do a concert in the northeast this year or next, I'd love to go. I'm a big miku fan. But yes, Japan is weird. But considering the US concert in Los angeles sold out and was just as packed as any other big artist, that makes us just as strange

 

[DragRace]

Interesting,but I'll stick to heavy metal / rock

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: DragRace
Interesting,but I'll stick to heavy metal / rock

Don't blame you.

For those who asked via PM, here is the english lyrics translation.
The number one princess in the whole world
You should know by now how to please me
OK?

First off
You should know when my hair got cut right down to the inch
Second off
You should know when I wear a brand new pair of shoes, get it?
Third off
For every word I speak to you, I expect three words in reply
If you understand
My right hand feels rather empty so hold it!
Nothing said
That could be really all that selfish I'm sure
I only want you to think that I'm super-cute..
Truely and genuinely

The number one princess in the whole world
Remember that hey~ hey~
You're not allowed to keep me waiting
Just who do you think that I am?
Now I want to go
And eat some sweets, where?
Of course I mean now.

Check 1, 2..
Aaa!

My fault?
You know by now that I won't complain about such things
Right? Can you hear me? Fine, I'll repeat it...
Oh, and also this
Get a white horse like in a book, and take me away
If you understand
Kneel down and call me a princess
Nothing said
That could be really all that selfish I'm sure
Though it is alright to go and scold me
Just a little bit

My only Prince in the whole world
You should know that hey~ hey~
Both our hands are empty
Our words have been a little sad recently
Why, why is that?
Come on notice it faster

You absolutely don't understand it, understand it ever!

Fruit topped strawberry shortcake
Pudding made with only the best of the best
I will.. I will try to hold back
Don't go thinking that I'm greedy
I can act proper as well
You'll regret your words!

Naturally! Because I am..

The number one princess in the whole world
I'll wander off if you don't always watch me
I'm being grabbed tightly, save me!
"Be more careful." And you turned away

..But I think that you're more dangerous

Aaa!

 

[mechanicx]

It's music and it's a performance, but it's not real music, talent or a real performer IMO. Whomever writes the songs into the computer could be considered a musician possibly.

This seems kind of silly. To me the whole point of a live concert is to see live musicians play instruments and sing live. Otherwise its just watching music videos.

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
It's music and it's a performance, but it's not real music, talent or a real performer IMO. Whomever writes the songs into the computer could be considered a musician possibly.

This seems kind of silly. To me the whole point of a live concert is to see live musicians play instruments and sing live. Otherwise its just watching music videos.



That's the crux of the matter. They KNOW that she isn't real. But they don't care. As far as they are concerned, she is. But can we say that she isn't an artist? It's an odd question. Theres no denying that she IS a hugely popular and "successful" pop star, both in Japan and elsewhere.

 

[mechanicx]

Well I'd say she is really just a popular character, like a cartoon character can be, but not an artist since she doesn't actually exist and create art. I think calling her an artist would only be in the loose sense as that's what her character is.

 

[daves87rs]

Well, I listen to everything, so....

 

[Kuato]

It's music. But the musician is the person that's running the computer.

 

[Shannow]

It's a human generated/written "song" for want of a better word, with CGI, and a Computer generated voice, so it's music as much as Avatar would/could be...a computer making a poem/song, then adding a (non Nickelback) riff could be compared.

I made a wind chime in the pentatonic scale (actually using first principals of vibrations from engineering). The chimes are hit at "random" by the wind, and where the bodies in motion were before the latest gust.

I wouldn't sit there listening to it at a concert, nor pay for a CD, nor make you listen to it, but it is music.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: DragRace
Interesting,but I'll stick to heavy metal / rock

They ripped Iron Maiden "Hallowed be thy name" with the cymbals at the OP vid

 

[eljefino]

That hologram is sort of "performance by proxy". ^ Classic example.

You are asking "what is art".

Photographers think they're hot stuff for taking a picture of a statue or a cathedral that took someone or a whole team of people years to carve out.

"But I got the lighting right" they say. Nope, the original artist thought of that too; they put time into thinking things through back then.

The lyrics of that Japanese video have some thought put into them.

 

[Trav]

Quote:
music (ˈmjuːzɪk)

— n
1. an art form consisting of sequences of sounds in time, esp tones of definite pitch organized melodically, harmonically, rhythmically and according to tone colour
2. such an art form characteristic of a particular people, culture, or tradition: Indian music ; rock music ; baroque music
3. the sounds so produced, esp by singing or musical instruments
4. written or printed music, such as a score or set of parts
5. any sequence of sounds perceived as pleasing or harmonious
6. rare a group of musicians: the Queen's music
7. informal face the music to confront the consequences of one's actions
8. music to one's ears something that is very pleasant to hear: his news is music to my ears

[C13: via Old French from Latin mūsica, from Greek mousikē ( tekhnē ) (art) belonging to the Muses, from Mousa Muse ]



Yes its real music. It is by definition subjective depending on who is listening to it, is it is pleasing or harmonious or just noise.
The same test could be applied to any genre.

 

[spasm3]

Its music, it didn't create itself. Although all those people cheering for a hologram is Really creepy.

 

[xxch4osxx]

Originally Posted By: DragRace
Interesting,but I'll stick to heavy metal / rock

My thoughts exactly!

 

[greenjp]

Calling "her" a musician is like calling Hello Kitty an actress.

 

[L_Sludger]

Originally Posted By: spasm3
Its music, it didn't create itself. Although all those people cheering for a hologram is Really creepy.
TBH their enthusiasm seemed non-existent

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
Originally Posted By: spasm3
Its music, it didn't create itself. Although all those people cheering for a hologram is Really creepy.
TBH their enthusiasm seemed non-existent


And that is part of where the divide comes from. As someone who watches anime I can understand this more. Many people who watch anime and this kind of stuff too don't feel like they are "just" a hologram. Make no mistake those people are really and genuinely cheering for her same as they would a live person. A lot of it is inherent cultural and generational difference. When you watch this and stuff, you start to treat them closer to a real person than a "cartoon character" even though one knows its really not.


Its a topic that would make a very interesting psychological study.