What is BMW smoking?

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1,983
Location
Cincinnati, USA
^ Mileage has little to do with it, either the design and your driving style (or environment like towing on mountains) is wearing them down enough to need changed, or it isn't, rust being the exception where you may need to clean them and might go ahead and put more pads on at that point anyway.

10K mi on major brand rotors OR pads is nuts. Either your brakes are sticking or you are driving it like you stole it, which is also not something to do with kids in the vehicle... or on public roads, or if you don't want to rag out what used to be a nice vehicle.
 
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939
Location
PR CA, USA
Well, considering how it brakes, no wonder.
But, I have Land Cruiser Prado and they cannot last longer than 10k miles before vibrating. Same on Sienna.
Though aftermarket ones solved the problem.
Landcruiser 80 series we had would go through pads every year, 10-12k miles. Rotors were not any better or worse than anything else that I remember.
 
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11,674
Location
Colorado Springs
^ Mileage has little to do with it, either the design and your driving style (or environment like towing on mountains) is wearing them down enough to need changed, or it isn't, rust being the exception where you may need to clean them and might go ahead and put more pads on at that point anyway.

10K mi on major brand rotors OR pads is nuts. Either your brakes are sticking or you are driving it like you stole it, which is also not something to do with kids in the vehicle... or on public roads, or if you don't want to rag out what used to be a nice vehicle.
Rotors on both my land Cruiser and Sienna. I drive it like I drive other cars.
They will eventually learn how to make rotor. It has POS brakes, it is simple as that. Though they might be bit better than overall assembly of vehicle.
 
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1,256
Location
Texas, USA
It's easy to get on YouTube and bash pretty much anything you want to. But without details, it's meaningless. The 2015 BMW that needs a new engine? Let's get the back story on maintenance before we lay the blame on BMW. ALL makes have cars in the shop getting new engines on any given day, and that's normally because the nut behind the wheel has been stretching OCIs, and checking absolutely nothing between OCIs. I've never owned a BMW, nor will I ever, and for every negative I've read on the internet about BMWs, there are probably 10 positives that never showed up on the internet, because people only come here to air grievances. I won't own one because of the entry price, and maintenance costs which I know to be exorbitant. I don't believe in vehicle engineering that requires a lot of nurse-maiding to make it reliable. I have friends that have been down the BMW and Mercedes road that vow to never darken their doors again. I even aided a car-clueless friend of mine in the care and repair of his C-Class (a 1998 C230 in 1999 and 2000), and I found myself at the Mercedes dealer with it VERY often. All I could do is advise him to be ready to part with it when the warranty expires. It's my experience that BMW and Mercedes are experts at designing desirable vehicles that create a lot of fanboy lust in the marketplace, complete with every technological advancement available today, and the proceed to jam them full of the cheapest Chinese components they can get their hands on, to accomplish technology at a price point. This may be frustrating from a technician standpoint, but technicians need to keep themselves abreast of the technology if they're going to wrench for a living. If you don't want to work on BMWs, refuse them at the door, or get out of the business.
 
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6,389
Location
Connecticut
Modern vehicles are all becoming what BMW was first, more complicated. Modern BMWs are more reliable, the E46 and older were fun cars and cheaper to fix, but they would nickle and dime you with all the plastic cooling bits. Granted, you can redo an entire E46 cooling system for $200, and I've done it on several of them. The big difference in my mind is that new BMWs aren't worth the price they command because they don't offer anything different. They are more vanilla, not inspiring to drive, and the styling is hideous. I love my E90, I have enjoyed some of the F30s I've driven, along with the excellent driver's cars like the E46 ZHP, E39, E36, and E30, but the new ones are missing that character. Yeah, they are fast, but how much HP can you really use on the street before you just end up in jail?

To answer the question of "what are they smoking?": They have been too focused on becoming what they think "everyone" wants that they have forgotten what their actual customers want (some of them returning for decades) and that can be a disaster for a brand.
 
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11,674
Location
Colorado Springs
Modern vehicles are all becoming what BMW was first, more complicated. Modern BMWs are more reliable, the E46 and older were fun cars and cheaper to fix, but they would nickle and dime you with all the plastic cooling bits. Granted, you can redo an entire E46 cooling system for $200, and I've done it on several of them. The big difference in my mind is that new BMWs aren't worth the price they command because they don't offer anything different. They are more vanilla, not inspiring to drive, and the styling is hideous. I love my E90, I have enjoyed some of the F30s I've driven, along with the excellent driver's cars like the E46 ZHP, E39, E36, and E30, but the new ones are missing that character. Yeah, they are fast, but how much HP can you really use on the street before you just end up in jail?

To answer the question of "what are they smoking?": They have been too focused on becoming what they think "everyone" wants that they have forgotten what their actual customers want (some of them returning for decades) and that can be a disaster for a brand.
^This. Take into consideration that E46 when it got out was very complicated vehicle. BMW and FIAT were first personal vehicles with common rail technology in diesels. E39 and 38 had basically first infotainment systems in industry etc.
New BMW like you said are made for everyone: Audi, MB, Lexus etc. audience. I think the way M235 and M2 were developed showed that BMW really did not think through F30. Once they realized that their core customer group was really tickecked off by F30, they jumped on 2 series so fast that M2 has crooked seat position bcs. it was never envisioned in the beginning that there will be M2.
These new ones are all about 0-60. That is what kids want to show off. Chasing car through curves is bit too complicated today.
 
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1,983
Location
Cincinnati, USA
This is Prado, same as Lexus GX470. When they are driven for what they are designed, 20mph below speed limit, they are OK. Once you "push" it that is when things fall apart.
Most people drive the same speed as other traffic, pretty much 5MPH over the speed limit, and normally get closer to 30K mi. (or more with conservative driving) with a GX470.

Rotors on both my land Cruiser and Sienna. I drive it like I drive other cars.
They will eventually learn how to make rotor. It has POS brakes, it is simple as that. Though they might be bit better than overall assembly of vehicle.

They have no problem making rotors. To state the brakes are POS but then they are better than overall assembly for a GX470? That is madness. GX470 has far better than average overall assembly, and no way that getting 10K out of brakes is a bit better than that. The brakes are even over-engineered for regular driving, around 6K5 lb towing capacity.

Your experiences simply do not align with the majority of owners.
 
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11,674
Location
Colorado Springs
Most people drive the same speed as other traffic, pretty much 5MPH over the speed limit, and normally get closer to 30K mi. (or more with conservative driving) with a GX470.



They have no problem making rotors. To state the brakes are POS but then they are better than overall assembly for a GX470? That is madness. GX470 has far better than average overall assembly, and no way that getting 10K out of brakes is a bit better than that. The brakes are even over-engineered for regular driving, around 6K5 lb towing capacity.

Your experiences simply do not align with the majority of owners.
LOL, the brakes on GX470 are in no way overengineered. Where did you get that idea? This is again that BS about superiority of Toyota products.
My Sienna has less surface on rotors (front. Rear are a joke. I am afraid that I will break pads when install them) than both my Tiguan and BMW and weight difference is 1,100lbs. GX470, which is heavy vehicle with real towing capability has smaller, and thinner rotors than BMW E90 335. Actually, it has smaller rear rotor and pads than BMW E90 330i which is some 2,000+ lbs lighter vehicle with no towing capabilities. Are you calling rear rotors of 18mm thickness in rear over-engineered? My Prado has same rotors like GX470 and that is where issues is, in undersized brakes.
But, if it is Toyota, it is OK, I guess.
 
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5,626
Location
the canyons
LOL, the brakes on GX470 are in no way overengineered. Where did you get that idea? This is again that BS about superiority of Toyota products.
My Sienna has less surface on rotors (front. Rear are a joke. I am afraid that I will break pads when install them) than both my Tiguan and BMW and weight difference is 1,100lbs. GX470, which is heavy vehicle with real towing capability has smaller, and thinner rotors than BMW E90 335. Actually, it has smaller rear rotor and pads than BMW E90 330i which is some 2,000+ lbs lighter vehicle with no towing capabilities. Are you calling rear rotors of 18mm thickness in rear over-engineered? My Prado has same rotors like GX470 and that is where issues is, in undersized brakes.
But, if it is Toyota, it is OK, I guess.

I'm just curious. You go on and on in thread after thread about how much you hate your Toyota's. Why do you own them if you hate them so much?

If I don't like a vehicle I own, I sell it...
 
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11,674
Location
Colorado Springs
I'm just curious. You go on and on in thread after thread about how much you hate your Toyota's. Why do you own them if you hate them so much?

If I don't like a vehicle I own, I sell it...
I have Sienna for long trips, plus has AWD, small kids. I drive it once a week so battery does not die. Only reason why I bought Sienna over ANY other minivan is AWD. Other than that, Honda, KIA, Dodge whatever, same POS different package. Daycare runs, grocery runs etc. I do all that in BMW. Only when we travel long trips, family, that is when we go with Sienna.
LC I got as it was step up from Hyundai Galloper in Europe for real off roading and G class is too expensive for what I need it an dhow much I utilize it. It is on and off vehicle. I have real vehicle for daily use. Did not anticipate amount of control arms that equals all my previous cars together would have to be changed and rotors too. Requires laboratory clean diesel to run good. But, off road wise, for what I need it, it is pretty good.
But this nonsense how brakes are over-engineered on GX470 is proof that Toyota could leave dog poop inside vehicle, and owner would ask: do you have more of genuine Toyota poop?
 
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11,674
Location
Colorado Springs
No disrespect, but brake pad life is dependent on the operating parameters of the vehicle. As long as there is adequate pad life it doesn’t matter how many miles they’ve been installed on the car.
Brake pad life is dependent on a lot of factors, not just operating parameters of vehicle.
BMW brakes (and many other cars that have similar) are more aggressive in nature, more performance oriented.
Toyota is for quite some time using Ceramic compound that is very good longevity wise, but performance wise is not even close. First week I got Sienna is to take down that garbage and replace it with better pads.
That is my point. More performance from pads, less life expectancy. Considering that pads are very cheap in general, not big deal. Big deal when you have to step on them. So, if you paid me to use pad that lasts 150k, I would not put it on a vehicle.
 
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1,598
Brake pad life is dependent on a lot of factors, not just operating parameters of vehicle.
BMW brakes (and many other cars that have similar) are more aggressive in nature, more performance oriented.
Toyota is for quite some time using Ceramic compound that is very good longevity wise, but performance wise is not even close. First week I got Sienna is to take down that garbage and replace it with better pads.
That is my point. More performance from pads, less life expectancy. Considering that pads are very cheap in general, not big deal. Big deal when you have to step on them. So, if you paid me to use pad that lasts 150k, I would not put it on a vehicle.
Whatever floats your boat that’s all that matters man.
 
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