What happened to BMW and its designs?

[KevinMalone]

I can't find the source now but I read an interview with BMW's designer where he more or less says they're designing for the Chinese market.

I also recall seeing China being a significant portion of BMW (and Merc's) sales.

 

[edyvw]

I thought beaver design was bad. But when I saw it for the first time in person, it actually looked good.

 

[Carmudgeon]

I totally agree. I had a 1984 BMW 318i long ago and I loved it, despite it being very slow. The great traits were the way it handled, felt, looked, and the driver-focused interior design. The whole industry has made choices that I disagree with since the 1990s, but it is particularly painful for me with BMW because of how special they used to be.

BMW has determined that the traits that made its cars unique and desirable in the past, and confidence in its identity could be diluted, and wouldn't hurt its business, which is as good as it has even been.

Even in the past, the special traits that satisfied the minority of enthusiasts went unnoticed by the majority of their customers. Moving closer to the mainstream has cost them the former, but not hurt them with the latter, and that's that.

The enthusiasts that can afford them have moved on to other marques that still offer those traits, like the one in Stuttgart. Others buy and hold onto the old classic BMWs.

I also get the impression that the Quandt children are less interested in the business, and could even have dissenting views about it, which is not unusual for family-held companies. Could Kiley's book be written about today's BMW? I dunno.

 

[JHZR2]

I have to wonder how much of BMWs challenge is thermal.

They kept reasonable looking front ends through the early 2010s, then they started to grow. But look at any vendor. Look at peoples’ faves - Lexus and Toyota. Absolutely atrocious designs with excessively large front openings, too many angular facets that serve no purpose. But how much of those big open front ends is because of radiator and evaporator?? Ditto for pickups these days, though some of that may be driven by machismo.

BMWs got hotter as they grew more powerful. I have to wonder if the funkier, but bigger cross-section with bigger openings on the front ends is to offset that.

 

[edyvw]

BMW has determined that the traits that made its cars unique and desirable in the past, and confidence in its identity could be diluted, and wouldn't hurt its business, which is as good as it has even been.

Even in the past, the special traits that satisfied the minority of enthusiasts went unnoticed by the majority of their customers. Moving closer to the mainstream has cost them the former, but not hurt them with the latter, and that's that.

The enthusiasts that can afford them have moved on to other marques that still offer those traits, like the one in Stuttgart. Others buy and hold onto the old classic BMWs.

I also get the impression that the Quandt children are less interested in the business, and could even have dissenting views about it, which is not unusual for family-held companies. Could Kiley's book be written about today's BMW? I dunno.

Not sure about that (if you think MB and not Porsche). I know @MCompact likes his MB, but BMW never abandoned I6 like MB did, kept focus on weight distribution, and still has a manual in production. No one has anything that rivals the B58 engine in that category, and ZF8 is still a better choice than 9G.
BMW enthusiasts pay attention to those things.

 

[brages]

I have to wonder how much of BMWs challenge is thermal.

They kept reasonable looking front ends through the early 2010s, then they started to grow. But look at any vendor. Look at peoples’ faves - Lexus and Toyota. Absolutely atrocious designs with excessively large front openings, too many angular facets that serve no purpose. But how much of those big open front ends is because of radiator and evaporator?? Ditto for pickups these days, though some of that may be driven by machismo.

BMWs got hotter as they grew more powerful. I have to wonder if the funkier, but bigger cross-section with bigger openings on the front ends is to offset that.

I think a large part of the big grilles on modern vehicles is blocked off and not providing any ventilation.

The photo in the original post is from the pre-Bangle era at BMW.

Bangle was the original "what happened to BMW styling" controversy. But the designs from his era are twenty years old now.

 

[JHZR2]

I think a large part of the big grilles on modern vehicles is blocked off and not providing any ventilation.

The photo in the original post is from the pre-Bangle era at BMW.

Bangle was the original "what happened to BMW styling" controversy. But the designs from his era are twenty years old now.

Bangle was, sure. But that was stuff like trunklids on the 5 series. Not the giant fronts and buckteeth grilles.

I owned an E30 for a long time and still own a e88. Both have reasonably sized kidneys, that go straight to
The heat exchangers. The e88 has high oil temperatures (this was known in the design), and the coolant temperatures run higher than other vehicles I own, also by design, not fault or issue.

If the giant grill isn’t useful in any of these vehicles, it’s just stupid.

 

[MCompact]

Not sure about that (if you think MB and not Porsche). I know @MCompact likes his MB, but BMW never abandoned I6 like MB did, kept focus on weight distribution, and still has a manual in production. No one has anything that rivals the B58 engine in that category, and ZF8 is still a better choice than 9G.
BMW enthusiasts pay attention to those things.

The B58 and 8HP are first class, but then Munich drops them into an awkwardly styled car with an IP that is anything but driver-focused. As one reviewer put it, driving the W205 C43 feels like a special occasion while the M340i just feels like a 330i with more horsepower. I could also go into how Mercedes AMG relates to its customers compared to BMW M, but that's another topic.

 

[MCompact]

Regardless, I think the Quandt heirs have little to no interest in automobiles and will sell BMW to the Chinese sooner than later.

 

[edyvw]

I think a large part of the big grilles on modern vehicles is blocked off and not providing any ventilation.

The photo in the original post is from the pre-Bangle era at BMW.

Bangle was the original "what happened to BMW styling" controversy. But the designs from his era are twenty years old now.

Bangle designed E46 too.
There is a story behind E60. That vehicle is supposed to go through a redesign before introduction. It was not finished work, but the designer died from leukemia, and they did not want to butcher his work.

 

[Al]

My son was looking at higher end vehicles and his take is BMW's are a bit long on the tooth technology wise.

 

[edyvw]

My son was looking at higher end vehicles and his take is BMW's are a bit long on the tooth technology wise.

Like what technology?

 

[edyvw]

The B58 and 8HP are first class, but then Munich drops them into an awkwardly styled car with an IP that is anything but driver-focused. As one reviewer put it, driving the W205 C43 feels like a special occasion while the M340i just feels like a 330i with more horsepower. I could also go into how Mercedes AMG relates to its customers compared to BMW M, but that's another topic.

M340 should not be M. 340 should be exactly that, 330 with more hp. Now, we are here bcs. they decided to follow MB throwing M badge on everything possible.
330/340 should be capable, inconspicuous vehicle. Special occasion is reserved for actual M.

 

[Al]

Like what technology?

I have no Idea.

 

[f355spider]

I have a newer BMW, but still daily drive my 2001 E39 540 M-Sport. I passed 373,200 miles today. Still the original engine and transmission, never been rebuilt. I rarely drive the newer one, a 2018 G30 M550ix...the power is pretty amazing with a twin turbo V8...stage one making 570hp, but the overall feedback is a bit lacking. Its a nice highway cruiser, but I find the older one more entertaining.

 

[MCompact]

M340 should not be M. 340 should be exactly that, 330 with more hp. Now, we are here bcs. they decided to follow MB throwing M badge on everything possible.
330/340 should be capable, inconspicuous vehicle. Special occasion is reserved for actual M.

BMW was throwing the M badge around long before AMG did it; my 1995 Club Sport wears three M badges- all installed at the factory.

 

[meep]

Interesting point about the Chinese market. Some here know I bought a used X3 and returned it. The driving experience was all fly by wire, driving, steering, brakes, with throttle and steering at least tunable in software. Screens were everywhere, with 25% of the screen space dedicated to instrumentation. I couldn’t feel the road, but it certainly oozed luxury, power and convenience. I returned it. Highly engineered but not for me.

Of course, I ended up in a Toyota with the same wayyy too much emphasis on infotainment - can’t get away from it I guess.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

M340 should not be M. 340 should be exactly that, 330 with more hp. Now, we are here bcs. they decided to follow MB throwing M badge on everything possible.
330/340 should be capable, inconspicuous vehicle. Special occasion is reserved for actual M.

The B58 and 8HP are first class, but then Munich drops them into an awkwardly styled car with an IP that is anything but driver-focused. As one reviewer put it, driving the W205 C43 feels like a special occasion while the M340i just feels like a 330i with more horsepower. I could also go into how Mercedes AMG relates to its customers compared to BMW M, but that's another topic.

I guess BMW thinks that since the M340i has a real LSD then it is an M-car. Hahaha.

 

[JHZR2]

I have a newer BMW, but still daily drive my 2001 E39 540 M-Sport. I passed 373,200 miles today. Still the original engine and transmission, never been rebuilt. I rarely drive the newer one, a 2018 G30 M550ix...the power is pretty amazing with a twin turbo V8...stage one making 570hp, but the overall feedback is a bit lacking. Its a nice highway cruiser, but I find the older one more entertaining.

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Those were pretty cars… but do I see an e36 m3 back there??

 

[KrisZ]

The front grill doesn’t look good IMO both in pictures and in person. The rest of the vehicles are nice looking to my eyes.

The 2 series looks good all around because it lack that huge grill.