What Ford says about 5W20!

[OriginHacker21]

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Originally posted by ImaginThat:

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Originally posted by Master ACiD:
was this car an automatic or manual transmission? i doubt you can over rev a auto unless you stick in in first and coast down a steep hill or something.

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You can just as easily shift a auto as you would a stick.

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On my parent's Pontiac Transport 1998 minivan I was downshifting down a hill and bumped it into first going 50mph. The transmission did not shift to first gear but kept it in third where I last had it. This has to be a safety feature.

On my parent's 2000 Honda Accord - there is a physical block preventing you from going into first gear with the shifter when you are going too fast. Same for trying to put it in reverse while the car is going forward...

Both cars are Automatics. I've never tried this on my car

(2004 Pontiac Sunfire 5spd manual).

 

[ColdCranker]

Schmoe and VolvoHead,
You're right. No way a 10w30 is too blame. First of all, there aint much difference between a 30 weight and a 20 weight hot. I'd even say a 30 weight might do better than a 20 weight (slightly) in keeping a thicker oil film.

 

[Cutehumor]

10w-30 of course isn't the blame. Ford area rep says "you did not use the approved 20wt oil" warranty denied. I'm sure this has worked with those who do not know anything about oil.

 

[darkdan]

Police crown vics have the same motor as regular crown vics.

They also have a smaller MAF (until recently), different TB, and a few other parts then other 2v 4.6L motors.

Also, a 3v mustang shifts at about 6100 rpms, a crown vic shifts before 5600 rpms.

Not to mention the 50 to 85 hp difference (depending on year).

 

[Vstrom]

Oh jeez I hope this doesn't turn into another Cathy Covington thread

Bottom line to me----the guy didn't follow warranty requirements so he SHOULD have the warranty denied, after all he KNEW what he was SUPPOSED to do and chose not to. Doesn't matter if the oil caused it or not.
In fact I think the Cathy Covington deal should have been her loss too, but she got lucky.

 

[the_oil_dealer]

Ford says what the manual THEY printed says. How is this a surprise to anyone? Throughout all the pages of this thread, there is still no objective reason why 5w-20 is recommended; nothing more than it is to assist meet CAFE requirements. With such production volume, it is the best thing. I do NOT think the guy's warranty should be denied for his oil choice only if they find indications of undue abuse from the Blackbox.

 

[427Z06]

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Originally posted by the_oil_dealer:
...there is still no objective reason why 5w-20 is recommended...

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What are the objective reasons NOT to use it?

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Originally posted by the_oil_dealer:
...nothing more than it is to assist meet CAFE requirements...

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So...using this logic, everyone should stop using 0-5w30 in GM cars, since GM got the approval from the EPA to use these grades back in the '80s for CAFE reasons.

 

[ColdCranker]

427z06:
I see your viewpoint, that 20 is not a bad number, but do you see an Xw-20 that passes the grueling ACEA A1/B1 A5/B5 tests? Maybe there is one, but I haven't found it. The physics are that a thicker oil film comes from a little extra viscosity, and, for summer driving, an oil like Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w30 would be nice for hard driving.

 

[MC5W20]

If the guy was dumb enough to not read his owners manual and to illiterate to be able to read the "5w20" on his oil fill cap - he deserves to have his warranty denied. If I were on the jury I would vote in Fords favor for denying the claim.

Using a 10w30 would give him less oil pressure in a motor spec'd for 5w20 oil.

 

[427Z06]

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Originally posted by ColdCranker:
The physics are that a thicker oil film comes from a little extra viscosity...

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That is not universally true. Read the research papers. And a thicker oil film may not always produce less wear, other factors may be more important.

The above is why Terry is so highly regarded as an analyst. His real world knowledge and experience trumps a lot of theories.

 

[edjack]

Interesting. My Ford V10, in an E450 motorhome chassis, specifies Synthetic 5W20. It scares me to think of this engine pulling the Grapevine in July, pulling our dinghy, with that stuff in the crankcase.

 

[Hootbro]

quote:

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Originally posted by Vstrom:
..........Bottom line to me----the guy didn't follow warranty requirements so he SHOULD have the warranty denied, after all he KNEW what he was SUPPOSED to do and chose not to. Doesn't matter if the oil caused it or not..........

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That is the biggest bunch of bullcrap arguement I have ever heard. If the oil was not the cause, Ford sent out a turd and they (Ford) should repair it. To stand on some moral high ground to teach him a lesson if the oil was not the cause is goes against all that would be truly right. Like other have said, Ford and many other manufactuers spec higher weight oils for the same engines when used in other countries. That Ford engineer is all about damage control and anyway they can try to get out of a warranty claim right or wrong. Ford has had a spate 5.4 V8's and some of the V10's blowing rods outside the case under 3K and on factory fill oil. Ford like anybody makes a turd from time to time.

 

[Master ACiD]

was this car an automatic or manual transmission? i doubt you can over rev a auto unless you stick in in first and coast down a steep hill or something.

 

[ImaginThat]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dr. T:
This story is somewhat difficult to believe since:

1. Why would the owner admit to using an oil other than what is recommended for warranty purposes?

2. If 1. never happened, Ford would have a hard/impossible time proving what grade was used since an oil grade is not readily established from a used oil analysis...especially between a 20 and 30 weight..nor would they ever bother (assuming there's some oil in the engine). So that throws the 'use the warranty-recommended oil' theroy out the window.

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Proof of service, the reciepts for the oil. Don't need no used oil analysis it's in writing on the reciepts.

 

[ImaginThat]

quote:

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Originally posted by Master ACiD:
was this car an automatic or manual transmission? i doubt you can over rev a auto unless you stick in in first and coast down a steep hill or something.

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You can just as easily shift a auto as you would a stick.

 

[tamu_man]

My service manager at my Ford dealership drives an 05 Mustang GT. He uses MC 30wt synthetic because his aftermarket temp guage shows oil temps of 235 when he does "spirited driving". This translates into every morning and every evening because he lives in the mountains. While he is by no means an expert, I trust his judgement and I too go up a weight if I think I am going to be using a vehicle much harder than the average driver. Synthetic also helps.

 

[MC5W20]

quote:

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Originally posted by Hootbro:

quote:

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Originally posted by Vstrom:
..........Bottom line to me----the guy didn't follow warranty requirements so he SHOULD have the warranty denied, after all he KNEW what he was SUPPOSED to do and chose not to. Doesn't matter if the oil caused it or not..........

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That is the biggest bunch of bullcrap arguement I have ever heard. If the oil was not the cause, Ford sent out a turd and they (Ford) should repair it. To stand on some moral high ground to teach him a lesson if the oil was not the cause is goes against all that would be truly right. Like other have said, Ford and many other manufactuers spec higher weight oils for the same engines when used in other countries. That Ford engineer is all about damage control and anyway they can try to get out of a warranty claim right or wrong. Ford has had a spate 5.4 V8's and some of the V10's blowing rods outside the case under 3K and on factory fill oil. Ford like anybody makes a turd from time to time.

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Can you prove your claim that Ford has had problems with the engines you mentioned. Chances are the moron who owned the car did some performance mods that caused the damage. No one here has the full story. The engineer isn't about damage control its about complying with the design standards of the product.

 

[TallPaul]

I knew it, just knew it. 5w30 is as corrupt as 5w20 and Louis LaPointe was right:
"NEVER use 5w30 or 5W-20 oil because it is closer to a grinding compound than a lubricant." --Louis LaPointe

 

[Ray H]

Some A/Ts will failsafe into "neutral" rather than subject an engine to over-rev on a forced downshift.

 

[GoldenRod]

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Originally posted by tamu_man:
I too go up a weight if I think I am going to be using a vehicle much harder than the average driver.

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Why?