What exactly is a "Living wage"?

We "don't deserve" any service or any pay, we negotiate as a society on what works and what doesn't.

You see some trains today have no ticket checkers in rural stations? You see some garbage trucks with robot arms pickup up trash cans and flipping it over into the truck? You see general stores being replaced by supermarket with self checkout? You see "drive through" in fast food? How about online hotel and airline ticket reservations?

Nobody deserve any service if the service won't pay for someone enough to do it (living or non living wage). They will get automated away or the service would be extinct because nobody want to pay for it. The only thing we can do is pick our career wisely and don't waste our lives doing jobs that will be automated before we retire if we want a better pay. It is the responsibilities of businesses and customers to figure out whether they want to pay for it or whether they want to automate it.
I don't believe I mentioned "deserving" anything in my post so not sure if you are point that at me or not. I agree with you but again, I'll state that at some point, we have a lot of people and if those masses can't all have a job that provides the basics, those "with" will be a minority vs. those "without" and that isn't a great place to be for any of us. The automation issue will compound this problem b/c as you say, many jobs can be automated...take long-haul truck drivers...they will be gone so again I ask....so those folks shoud "get f'd" b/c they chose poorly? ..we sure are happy they are driving today to deliver all our goodies. Tough decisions for all of us are ahead!
 
It's a vicious cycle. You artificially inflate wages which means more spending power with the same supply. What does basic economics say will happen next?
Yep - it's not a pretty future at this point to me but I'll enjoy things while I can. Too many people and too few jobs that provide "a living wage" = the movie Elisium in my mind.
 
I don't believe I mentioned "deserving" anything in my post so not sure if you are point that at me or not. I agree with you but again, I'll state that at some point, we have a lot of people and if those masses can't all have a job that provides the basics, those "with" will be a minority vs. those "without" and that isn't a great place to be for any of us. The automation issue will compound this problem b/c as you say, many jobs can be automated...take long-haul truck drivers...they will be gone so again I ask....so those folks shoud "get f'd" b/c they chose poorly? ..we sure are happy they are driving today to deliver all our goodies. Tough decisions for all of us are ahead!
Not pointing at you, just a general comment about society in general. We are all entitled one way or another.

Automation is not only about eliminating the low cost boring jobs, but also making hard to do expensive jobs easier and cheaper. Giving an AI tablet to a delivery driver, and he can become a very productive delivery driver at a lower cost. Giving it to a mom with a kid who couldn't afford childcare in the summer, and now she can watch her kid while "working" delivering takeout foods instead of collecting welfare checks. A new grad now can do engineering work that previously may need a PhD to do, because we have a lot of computer power at $500 per laptop.

The numbers will eventually balance out, and people will decide whether it is worth doing something or paying for something or not. They also will decide how many kids they want to have and when do they start their families.
 
Not pointing at you, just a general comment about society in general. We are all entitled one way or another.

Automation is not only about eliminating the low cost boring jobs, but also making hard to do expensive jobs easier and cheaper. Giving an AI tablet to a delivery driver, and he can become a very productive delivery driver at a lower cost. Giving it to a mom with a kid who couldn't afford childcare in the summer, and now she can watch her kid while "working" delivering takeout foods instead of collecting welfare checks. A new grad now can do engineering work that previously may need a PhD to do, because we have a lot of computer power at $500 per laptop.

The numbers will eventually balance out, and people will decide whether it is worth doing something or paying for something or not. They also will decide how many kids they want to have and when do they start their families.
Agreed - population is going to be our biggest issue.
 
If we think it's bad now, wait until automation gets fully implemented into the retail and fast food sector. It won't be long before you go to McDs drive-thru from placing the order, to paying for the order, to picking up the order and leaving without ever seeing a human being. The pandemic has only accelerated this mindset among business owners as computers don't have to social distance, wash hands, wear masks, or quarantine. They are always on time for work, never call out, never get sick (at least not in the conventional sense), and you can pay 1 tech $20/hr to maintain them vs paying 10 employees $15/hr. If people aren't careful, they'll not only find themselves laid off, but their position dissolved completely.
 
PS: I guess you know that Nassau County cops are among the highest paid in the country and they don't deal with the same things NYPD does....
Absolutely as a long time resident of Nassau county I am fully aware.
However people escape Long Island all the time because it’s the highest property taxed region in the country and the major cause of this is the police and school budgets.

With that said I knew officers from all over the place it’s a choice you make no one is forced to do anything.

My choice was to get out of there, ridiculous paying $1000 a month for property taxes on a small home in a decaying urban atmosphere.
Moving south my home is 300% larger and taxes 80% less in one of the states best school districts too!
Anyone who works can do the same, being free is a good thing. 🙃

New York State now has to bribe college students by offering them free college if they sign a contract to remain in the state for five years after they graduate. Something is wrong up north
 
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Absolutely as a long time resident of Nassau county I am fully aware.
However people escape Long Island all the time because it’s the highest property taxed region in the country and the major cause of this is the police and school budgets.

With that said I knew officers from all over the place it’s a choice you make no one is forced to do anything.

My choice was to get out of there, ridiculous paying $1000 a month for property taxes on a small home in a decaying urban atmosphere.
Moving south my home is 300% larger and taxes 80% less in one of the states best school districts too!
Anyone who works can do the same, being free is a good thing. 🙃

New York State now has to bribe college students by offering them free college if they sign a contract to remain in the state for five years after they graduate. Something is wrong up north
I knew an architect friend from 25 years back. He lives in Queen bordering Long Island because of the property tax rate. He wasn't mentioning about police or public sector employee being the cause but the property density.
 
If we think it's bad now, wait until automation gets fully implemented into the retail and fast food sector. It won't be long before you go to McDs drive-thru from placing the order, to paying for the order, to picking up the order and leaving without ever seeing a human being. The pandemic has only accelerated this mindset among business owners as computers don't have to social distance, wash hands, wear masks, or quarantine. They are always on time for work, never call out, never get sick (at least not in the conventional sense), and you can pay 1 tech $20/hr to maintain them vs paying 10 employees $15/hr. If people aren't careful, they'll not only find themselves laid off, but their position dissolved completely.
It is always there, nothing new under the sun.

Imagine people from 200 years ago talking about fast food, microwave, drive through, self service, and camp fire cooking being a luxury vs eating a machine made hamburger frozen then warmed with electricity.

People are doing all sorts of things to make life cheaper, easier to DIY, to save a few bucks, and eventually we'll have unmanned microwave locker vending machine like in South Korea and Japan. Life goes on, people will still find jobs, and people will still eat.

Never underestimate the amount of effort customers will DIY to save a few bucks, so self service is the future.
 
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You are missing a key attribute is pay correlates to supply of labor beyond the value provided. That is why my 14 year old was offered $15/hr to do a somewhat boring job this summer. She passed. The owner I know does not liking hiring 14 year olds and in past was paying around $11-$12/hr for 16-18 year olds for work on farm.
Value goes up with scarcity. I didn’t miss it, I simply didn’t state a given.

If more people become available, the wage will go down.

If not, and the wage demanded isn’t sustainable for the business, other means may be employed. Automation, additional duties for existing workers. I.E give some workers a raise, but increase the job requirements. IE you don’t just take tickets, you also clean up between showings.

And other means I probably don’t even consider since I’m not in the industry.
 
It's a vicious cycle. You artificially inflate wages which means more spending power with the same supply. What does basic economics say will happen next?
There is no simple answer. Depends on the product. But basically, Econ teaches us prices will rise as long as consumption does not drop to an unacceptable point. It gets more complicated past that.
 
If we think it's bad now, wait until automation gets fully implemented into the retail and fast food sector. It won't be long before you go to McDs drive-thru from placing the order, to paying for the order, to picking up the order and leaving without ever seeing a human being. The pandemic has only accelerated this mindset among business owners as computers don't have to social distance, wash hands, wear masks, or quarantine. They are always on time for work, never call out, never get sick (at least not in the conventional sense), and you can pay 1 tech $20/hr to maintain them vs paying 10 employees $15/hr. If people aren't careful, they'll not only find themselves laid off, but their position dissolved completely.
Yep. Been true since the beginning of time. Every product has a lifecycle.
 
Absolutely as a long time resident of Nassau county I am fully aware.
However people escape Long Island all the time because it’s the highest property taxed region in the country and the major cause of this is the police and school budgets.

With that said I knew officers from all over the place it’s a choice you make no one is forced to do anything.

My choice was to get out of there, ridiculous paying $1000 a month for property taxes on a small home in a decaying urban atmosphere.
Moving south my home is 300% larger and taxes 80% less in one of the states best school districts too!
Anyone who works can do the same, being free is a good thing. 🙃

New York State now has to bribe college students by offering them free college if they sign a contract to remain in the state for five years after they graduate. Something is wrong up north
I agree that "something is wrong up north" but I'd get a time out for saying what that 'mental disorder' is.
 
As others have posted, nailing down what a living wage is, is tough. But is should be able to lift one outta poverty.
Where you happen to be located makes a huge difference; it is key.
I believe talent and strong work ethic is spread fairly evenly everywhere; opportunity is not.

Regardless, there is a quote somewhere, "Don't punk out and quit."
 
I was responsible for a world wide custom application that drove a billion dollar company. I know all about working 24x7.
I was on a 1st name basis with workers form Japan, China, Taiwan, Europe, etc.
And it is a heck of a lot easier than manual labor.
Good for you, I don't miss 3am calls for sure. Manual labor can be very different, you may be folding t-shirts all day and put them on shelves, or being roofer in TX heat...
 
Your view of the world is the exact opposite of what you posted.
Young Americans have never had it in more easy in the history of mankind. The ones to complain are soft, spoiled, immature and clueless on how to work and manage money.
Talk to some older people sometime. Some of them have a real disconnect between their past experience and today's reality. They'll say young adults should simply buy a house as they did in their 20s, then brag that their own houses are worth X times what they paid decades ago.

Some not as old are in the same mindset. Their attitude is that they worked summer jobs and paid for college/university without much debt 30–40 years ago, so today's young adults should be able to do the same. There is no comprehension that higher-ed costs have shot up much faster than inflation since 1990.
 
I still think poverty is as much a mindset as it is a status. There's some people you could gift $1 million, and they'd be broke again in a week. There's others you could gift $1 million, and they'd turn it into $5 million.
 
In NYC a police officer or firefighter starts at $45K a year....hardly a liveable wage in a city where even a cockroach infested apartment can go for over $3K a month. On top of that the 'powers that be' have decided to make them (PO's) the bad guys because it works for their 'divide and conquer' policies. America, sadly, is becoming a place where raising a family is nearly impossible unless you are rich or on 'public assistance'...
My friends who are now newly retired NYC police, fireman and sanitation all made over 100k a year easily. After working 20 years there fully retired making about 65k a year pension with free health insurance
 
Minimum wage when I was in high school was $3.35/hour. Today that is equivalent to over $29/hour. Just inflation, nothing more.... Yet we have folks screaming that burger flippers don't deserve $15/hour. They're right, they should be getting 2x that.


The $15 an hr argument to flip burgers us dead. McDonalds is paying nearly $20 an hr. All shifts. Full time opportunity with benefits.
 
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