What exactly is a "Binary - AGM" Battery? - Battery Adaptation.

[DuckRyder]

There's a quite a bit of debate / Confusion around this particularly related to Volkswagen Group battery adaptations.

A good number of folks want to set an AGM to "Binary - AGM" (also reported to say "Bipolar - AGM" in some software) it seems because it is the only option that says "AGM".

There are a fair number of scans of factory programming for an AGM saying "Fleece". Reportedly this is a common parlance for an AGM in Europe as well. (Fleece = Mat in German?)

Reference: https://www.battery-kutter.de/main/en/Lead-batteries-/AGM-batteries-

Some say a spiral cell AGM is a "Binary - AGM", some say "Binary - AGM" is a future battery type.

I get zero clarity from trying to search a battery type of "Binary - AGM"

Any one a Battery engineer and want to take a stab?

 

[SHOZ]

My guess is the spiral cell is only one positive and one negative plate per cell separated by a contiguous spiral roll of the nano porus fiberglass mat.

All others are the typical stacked plate and use a envelope for the glass matting.

 

[thastinger]

Is fleece an option in your settings?

 

[MParr]

Some people are inputting Fleece and some are inputting Binary AGM. I don’t think it matters which one. I used Binary AGM.
What does matter is changing the serial number of the battery. That lets the system know that there is a new battery. There are 10 digits to the serial number. You can change the last number or make up a 10 digit number. For example: Today’s date is 09/13/2024. You could input 0009132024 for your serial number. Your OBDII might read the correct Amp Hours for the new battery or it may not. My Ancel VD700 read the correct Amp Hours of the new battery. If not, input the correct Amp Hours of your new battery.

 

[SHOZ]

The two designs are quite different but achieve the long term goal. I would put the spiral cell at a disadvantage due to one break and it is a dead cell. Both can take a lot more current initially than the lead acid. They also usually have a higher voltage due to the electrolyte being a higher gravity. I've never had any problem charging an AGM with old school battery chargers.

 

[DuckRyder]

I’m really only interested in what a “Binary AGM” is exactly, everything else is well documented.

 

[MParr]

Binary defined means having two parts.
I just wished it was as easy as my Ford. Five flashes of the high beams followed by three pumps on the brake pedal and done.

 

[vavavroom]

Now I'm forced to recall the Bynars on ST: TNG.

 

[SHOZ]

The 2 plate spiral cell is what binary is. Neg-0 Pos-1

 

[DuckRyder]

What SHOZ is saying makes sense. Part 2 of the question is why does that matter for charging?

 

[MParr]

I’m not going back in to change mine to Fleece. I have a 3 year warranty. When the battery needs to be replaced, I will code it as Fleece.

 

[barryh]

There is one type of AGM that's outside the norm and that an Gel/AGM hybrid. Basically an AGM plate and separator construction but with Gel electrolyte rather than liquid. So if binary means two parts then could it be referring to this hybrid construction ?

I've only ever known them as Gel/AGM hybrid though, I have one on my motorcycle which has already lasted 10 years to date. They are more commonly used in marine applications.

 

[SHOZ]

AGM is not like gel cells. AGM uses fiberglass woven separators that are made of nano width and length glass tubes that suck up the electrolyte like a sponge and hold it. They usually have a stacked plate design so each plate is welded into a Pos or Neg busbar. The capacity of a AGM depends on the number of positive plates.

The Spiral cell has one plate for negative and one plate for positive with the same glass mat. But it's rolled up like a hoho and each plate is attached to the terminals with a weld. The capacity would depend on the mass of the one Pos plate, bigger plate=more capacity.

Gel cells have an additive added to the liquid electrolyte and it turns it into a gel. I assume reduces instantaneous reaction time too. Otherwise old school lead acid. Used in aviation for upside down use originally.

 

[shortyb]

A binary battery is another very similar version of bi-polar electrode technology. Bi-polar is where both anode and cathode are placed in close proximity on the substrate, which acts as a thin membrane insulator between the two. This allows for current flow directly between cells (in series) and eliminates internal jumpers. It handles much higher currents this way and simplifies manufacturing. Currently (no pun), it is conventional lead acid battery technology, albeit with a different charging procedure. The technology is aiming for implementation in ultra high current/ high capacity applications with Li-Ion batteries for EVs.

When coding a new battery for VAG, you can pick either fleece of binary AGM. The charging module will recognize the charging protocol and make MINOR adjustment to charge the battery properly regardless. Binary AGM is akin to a spiral-wound cell deep cycle since the thinner mat acts as the insulating substrate of bi-polar battery technology.

 

[DuckRyder]

So hitting this up about .006 what would we call this:

 

[shortyb]

So hitting this up about .006 what would we call this:

Conventional AGM with decidedly unconventional construction.

 

[Carmudgeon]

Now I'm forced to recall the Bynars on ST: TNG.

01010111 01100101 00100000 01100011 01101111 01101101 01100101 00100000 01101001 01101110 00100000 01110000 01100101 01100001 01100011 01100101 00111111

 

[DuckRyder]

So i'm on about my third e-mail to Optima without response (not real happy with that), it you call they ask you to e-mail.

I think this may be relevant to both the question of why the charge profile is different and what it is. (SHOZ was right on target).

 

[DuckRyder]

So, I did finally get a reply from Optima.

They confirmed The H6 Optima should be set to "Fleece as it is not Spiral cell".

Still digesting the programing instructions, but it seems to indicate the serial number change is all that's required if replacing like for like. They recommend changing the 4th digit for some reason. Obviously if you change the chemistry or size that needs to be adapted.

Also One of the Golf guys has some good info.

https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/inde...bigger-capacity-battery-to-a-mk7-golf.320084/