What are the limits of the API rating?

Status
Not open for further replies.
D

dubie2003

Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Messages
546
Location
Melbourne, Florida
As the title states, I am looking for the component limits of SN, SM and SL motor oil.

I am looking to mix some SL (VR1 Syn) with SN (SynPower) to make a mix with SM levels for my vehicle but I can't seem to find what the limits are on each. My main concern is the ZDDP.

Does anyone have a link to the max limits of SL, SM and SN rated oils?

Thanks
 
The component limits don't really matter, you have to look at some PDS's and VOA's because, while there are upper limits, not every manufacturer blends to the limit.

What are you trying to do?

Just run the VR1 or mix them 50/50. Your cat won't explode in one OCI.
 
What car is this oil going in?
SM and SN have the same Phos limits in the API specs.
If your car is spec'd for SM, SN SynPower is fine.
If your car is spec'd for SL, use the VR1 Synthetic.
 
Originally Posted By: dubie2003
...
I am looking to mix some SL (VR1 Syn) with SN (SynPower) to make a mix with SM levels for my vehicle but I can't seem to find what the limits are on each. My main concern is the ZDDP.
...
They are the same ZDDP allowance for SM and SN. I am really liking the Mobil Super 5w-30 (with an 'unadvertised' Titanium add pack) better than any 5w-30 ive run in a decade. It really is special - or should I say 'Super'. Former favourite for Spring through Fall was Shell SM with the moly. Formula Shell SN is missing the moly.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: dubie2003
...
I am looking to mix some SL (VR1 Syn) with SN (SynPower) to make a mix with SM levels for my vehicle but I can't seem to find what the limits are on each. My main concern is the ZDDP.
...
They are the same ZDDP allowance for SM and SN. I am really liking the Mobil Super 5w-30 (with an 'unadvertised' Titanium add pack) better than any 5w-30 ive run in a decade. It really is special - or should I say 'Super'. Former favourite for Spring through Fall was Shell SM with the moly. Formula Shell SN is missing the moly.


I don't have concrete proof, BUT other SN-spec SOPUS products (QS and PZ) are actually showing increased levels of moly in them - I'd imagine SN FS would be the same.

I'm not saying Mobil Super isn't good stuff, I just think you are short-changing SN FS......
 
The vehicle is an 08 Dodge Avenger R/T (3.5L HO).

I know the CAT won't explode if I use the VR1 syn a few times but I have 12qts to use up and I plan to mix with SynPower to ensure I don't have CAT issues. Plus the car has lifetime powertrain so I am trying not to push the limits too much, lol.
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
OK, so go with a VR1 Syn/SynPower mix for the next 2-3 oil changes. Your cat will probably survive.


This is exactly my plan but I am trying to see how much VR1 I can use in the ratio supported by facts, not opinions.

Opinions say to run a 50/50 but that seems to push the limits too much. I can safely run 5qts synpwr and then .5qts vr1 but that would take 24 changes to use up. I would much rather run 1.5qts vr1 per change if possible.

I'll run the numbers and see how much I can push the limits.

SideNote: The funny part is that his 3.5L motor has been around forever. It will run fine on the SL rated oil but I am unsure how the CATs will do thus the reason to run a mix.
 
Synpower has 760ppm Phos.
VR1 Syn has 1000ppm Phos.

50/50 blend would give 880ppm. Exceeds SM/SN limit by 10%.
2.0 qts VR1S (64/36) blend would give 846ppm.
1.5 qts VR1S (73/27) blend would give 825ppm.
1.0 qt VR1S (82/18) blend would give 803ppm.

Take your pick. If your engine does not use oil, there would probably be no issue with the cat on any of the mixes.
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Take your pick. If your engine does not use oil, there would probably be no issue with the cat on any of the mixes.


Sounds about right. Synpower is also ILSAC GF-5 which puts the limit on phosphorous volatility at 79%. Either way running 12 quarts through wont reduce the catalytic convertor lifespan by much. And it's not like they go from working to failure. What happens is the catalysts slowly become filled with non-reacting particles and their efficiency decreases over time. Also, since you live in Florida you don't have to worry about emission standards.

It wont affect your powertrain warranty either way. The exhaust emission system is not part of the powertrain and consequentially is not covered by the warranty. Unless it states API SM or better oil in the manual, in which case just use receipts from oil you buy for other cars or something to prove you didn't use an oil with an older API designation.
 
For my application the 1qt VR1 to 4.5qts SynPower seems to work the best. It means I will be using SynPower for the next 12 changes but that lifetime powertrain will ensure I have the vehicle for a while.
 
You'll do no harm running straight VR1 for a few changes.
Heck, you could probably run it from now until the end of the car's useful life with no problems.
As has been noted in other threads multiple times, catalytic converters have been around since the 'seventies, while low metallic additive oils are a far more recent development.
VR1 synthetic 10W-30 is only a little more than Synpower 10W-30 dyed a pretty shade of blue.
 
Yep, VR1 Syn is Synpower with more zddp.
Just like VR1 conventional is Valvoline Premium Conventional with more zddp.
This is not a slam against Valvoline, just pointing out how simple their approach to adpaks is.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

G
Ford lube spec: Looking for an EXACT SPEC match
Replies
12
Views
1K
bdcardinal
R
What oil do I need for my Citroen C1 2018?
Replies
8
Views
705
LonelyOilFunnel
B
A lubricant with a label API SN/CF vs API SN - Whats the difference?
Replies
8
Views
2K
DirectRejection
R
Mobil Delvac 1 5W30 Advanced Synthetic
Replies
3
Views
2K
fantastic
W
Mazda 2.5T Oil Selection
Replies
2
Views
540
drtyler
Back
Top