what 5w20 oil to use?

[dragboat]

quote:

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Originally posted by Roger: I too am debating...still, on the most desireable 5W20 to use for an Escape that calls for 20W. Just put in Castrol, largely on the faith of a recent analysis posted here. Ran Motorcraft previously. But that oil had, what I viewed as "okay", but not impressive analysis results in my engine, which I posted here last July. Meaningful information about 5W20 oils is hard to come by. On their web site, Motorcraft still lists data for their SJ 5W20, not SL. Can't find a data sheet on Castrol oil. And oil analysises on this brew are also rare. Patience is definitely in order.

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While you are being patient I beleive you were wise to use the Castrol 5/20. It looks to be a good oil so far. If the warranty was not an issue the Synergyn 20wt will get the job done very well.But warranty is always in the mix these days I would like to see a VOA of the Mobil Drive Clean and the Pennzoil. The Pennzoil 5/20 is much daker than the SL 5/30's-10/30's we are used to seeing FWIW

 

[jjbula]

Dragboat, Are you referring to the 0w20 synergen? If so, wouldn't a 0w20 meet warranty requirements for a 5w20?

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by jjbula: Dragboat, Are you referring to the 0w20 synergen? If so, wouldn't a 0w20 meet warranty requirements for a 5w20?

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Not unless it's API certified. (Oh, dear! Have I opened the API can of worms again? )

 

[dragboat]

quote:

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Originally posted by jjbula: Dragboat, Are you referring to the 0w20 synergen? If so, wouldn't a 0w20 meet warranty requirements for a 5w20?

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Yep was refering to that oil and the lack of the API kiss of death possible EPA behind things that imo has the Auto Makers in their back pocket or vise versa or who cares????? Still on topic I once knew a guy with a new car that would use a better oil " non API " than allowed for warranty,,he would buy the API oil mandated for warranty and dump it in is his beater car and keep the reciepts [ December 22, 2002, 08:52 AM: Message edited by: dragboat ]

 

[metroplex]

5W-20 is used for CAFE/EPA not engine longevity. I don't understand why no one frigging understands this. FACT: 2000 Mustang GT, 4.6L SOHC V8, WINDSOR PLANT ENGINE. Ford spec's 5W-30. 2001 Mustang GT, 4.6L SOHC V8, ROMEO PLANT ENGINE. Ford spec's 5W-20. Ok, so you say that the Romeo plant engine is built to tighter tolerances? 96-98 Mustang GT, 4.6L SOHC V8, ROMEO PLANT ENGINE. 99-00 Mustang GT, 4.6L SOHC V8, WINDSOR PLANT ENGINE Main differences: 96-98 GT had non-PI heads while 99-00 GTs had PI heads on a Windsor made block + rotating assemblies. I have spoken to Ford engineers re: this and they state THERE IS NO NEED TO USE 5W-20. Heck, there are no differences in the 00 and 01 GT engine that would call for THINNER oil!!!! Just use 5W-30 where it asks you to use 5W-20.

 

[G-MAN]

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Originally posted by metroplex: 5W-20 is used for CAFE/EPA not engine longevity. I don't understand why no one frigging understands this.

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I think everyone here probably does understand the reason BEHIND Ford's switch to 5w20, but that's not really the issue. What it boils down to is how good the 5w20 is, and how well it holds up and protects the engine. Only the UOAs that people post will show that. I'm sure in the mid 80s when Detroit started going to 5w30 people got all hot and bothered about such a "thin" oil. I know I did. Now it's perfectly accepted in most situations as the "normal" viscosity to use. People will whine and complain about 5w20 until it proves itself and then they'll find something else to whine about.

 

[dragboat]

Metroplex, There are 3 Honda motors,two seem to pretty much demands a lighter VI oil than the others because of the clearances,,I think member Jay has these specs.I know Honda has more motors,I chose these 3 Yes,EPA is most likely be behind some of this light VI oil stuff but some makers are designing a tighter tolerance motor to use them,,,it warrants obtaining the knowledge before throwing a heavier VI oil into ""some"" of these newer machines .Domestic origin or not. It looks like you have done your homework on those Fords you love,,it does not apply to all motors imo

 

[G-MAN]

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Originally posted by dragboat: Metroplex, There are 3 Honda motors,two seem to pretty much demands a lighter VI oil than the others because of the clearances,,I think member Jay has these specs.I know Honda has more motors,I chose these 3 Yes,EPA is most likely be behind some of this light VI oil stuff but some makers are designing a tighter tolerance motor to use them,,,it warrants obtaining the knowledge before throwing a heavier VI oil into ""some"" of these newer machines .Domestic origin or not. It looks like you have done your homework on those Fords you love,,it does not apply to all motors imo

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I've gotten it from two different oil company engineers that this "thinner oil for tighter clearances" thing is a bunch of baloney. What they've both said is that NONE of the current multi-vis oils on the market would be harmful in any modern engine provided the appropriate viscosity grade was used for the temp conditions. (I took that to mean "Don't use a 20w50 in January in Barrow, Alaska.") BTW, you need to check your PM. [ December 22, 2002, 09:37 AM: Message edited by: XHVI ]

 

[Mike_dup1]

The push behind lighter is for fuel economy and emissions. Every 0.01% means a lot over the entire product line. The lower they can get the CAFE the better for them in terms of meeting fuel ecomony standards, expecilly with so much of the demand for less fuel efficeint SUV's, luxury car and trucks its hard to meet the current standards. Look at all the bitching in DC about how the Bush admin. is hurting the air etc. The Dems and others want tougher CAFE standards and if that happends, you be using 0W-00. Wait till someone figures out that if they were to heavily tax the less fuel efficeint lubes, they can get force us all to use the 5W-20 oils. So it all boils down to weather you bought the car for the economy or not, using an oil other than whats recomended is going to cost some in mileage. You might not notice it in one tank but over 50,000 it will show up. [ December 22, 2002, 09:41 AM: Message edited by: Mike ]

 

[Roger]

I now use 5W20 in my Escape for one reason, and one reason only...Ford's warranty. EPA/CAFE fuel economy and engine longevity are important issues, but frankly irrelevant to me while the vehicle is under warranty. At 10K miles I switched over to M1 5W30 for much of the logic expressed previously on these forums. Then I started reading about blown Escape engines on the Escape-Central owners site. See the postings in November forums about "blown engines" at http://www.escape-central.com/ In one of those threads one guy even claims his dealer sent the oil off for analysis before determining warranty coverage. I own 4 different vehicles, and follow a different owners site for each. This is the only site where I've even found comments about failed engines, let alone failed engines so early in their life. No doubt the failure rate I'm reading about for Ford Duratec engines is not statistically different than the failure rate for other automitive engines. No doubt... And I'm sure there are many other variables besides oil to explain things...like owner's driving habits, other improper maintenance, engine design issues, or a full moon! We'll probably never really know. But since I happen to own an Escape, I'm somewhat concerned. Since then I VERY CAREFULLY re-read my Escape's warranty book, and switched back to 5W20. Ford clearly has a legal leg to stand on if they wanted to dispute warranty coverage due to a different oil being used than the one they recommend. I talked to my local Ford service manager before using 5W30. He said there would be no problem at the time, but thinking back on that conversation, his body language told me that he really didn't really want to even talk about the subject. Of course I have nothing in writing from him. On Bill99gxe's oil spreadsheet I also noticed that the Ford and Honda analysis show some Moly in those factory-fill 5W20 oils. Yet the retail Motorcraft available today doesn't appear to contain Moly. So I'm still searching for the "best" available 5W20 out there. This whole debate on 5W20 oil is a lot like the story of the chicken and the pig. The chicken may make a "contribution" to your breakfast with an egg, but the pig is "committed" with the bacon. Since I own one, and while under warranty, I'm now committed to 5W20 oil...oink!!!

 

[Mike_dup1]

Can they determine the viscosity and oil brand from an oil analysis? If the dealer was going to send in a sample of my oil, you can bet I would do the same for a second opinion. I personally know a Ford Tech and he is not impressed with the small engines. He claims he see's a lot of problems in thier shop. He told my relative to stay away from a Focus, get a Taurus but aviod the toys cars and trucks as he calls them, they throw-sways

 

[G-MAN]

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Originally posted by Mike: Can they determine the viscosity and oil brand from an oil analysis? If the dealer was going to send in a sample of my oil, you can bet I would do the same for a second opinion.

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Maybe not the brand, but certainly the viscosity.

 

[joee12]

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Originally posted by Roger: On Bill99gxe's oil spreadsheet I also noticed that the Ford and Honda analysis show some Moly in those factory-fill 5W20 oils. Yet the retail Motorcraft available today doesn't appear to contain Moly. So I'm still searching for the "best" available 5W20 out there.

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With that said, would anyone be interested in a virgin analysis of Honda 5W-20?? I have been thinking about doing this since I am running Honda 5W-20 in my sister's 2003 Civic EX, and plan on changing and sampling at 3000 mile intervals with this oil. -Joe [ December 22, 2002, 11:52 AM: Message edited by: joee12 ]

 

[Greg]

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Originally posted by Giles: Patman, let's turn that around and show me an engine that's gone 250,000+ on 5w20. There are many cases of engines lasting this long with good maintainence of oil using dino or synthetic on 30 or 40 weights. I don't doubt 5w20 provides adequate protection for the average user, but people on this board aren't average. And do you doubt the move to 5w20 is all about gas mileage and CAFE?

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has 5w20 been out long enough for someone to go 250,000 miles?

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Giles: Patman, let's turn that around and show me an engine that's gone 250,000+ on 5w20. There are many cases of engines lasting this long with good maintainence of oil using dino or synthetic on 30 or 40 weights. I don't doubt 5w20 provides adequate protection for the average user, but people on this board aren't average. And do you doubt the move to 5w20 is all about gas mileage and CAFE?

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I agree, it is a move to satisfy CAFE but so was 5w30 and things worked out just fine. I'm sure we'll see plenty of engines go 250k on 5w20, just like we saw with 5w30. Oils have come a long way, and with a better built oil to begin with, a 5w20 can (and WILL) work.

 

[Patman]

Let's put this another way. Mobil 1 5w30 has a viscosity of around 9.7 to 10.0 cst at 100c. It's been this way for a while. In used oil analysis it often shows itself to thin out to a high 20wt also, but yet the wear metals also don't appear to suffer either. So along comes 5w20, which isn't much thinner than Mobil 1 5w30 at operating temp, and all of a sudden everyone thinks that all of these engines are gonna blow up. Like I've said, I'm guilty of thinking this way too, I thought 5w20 was the creation of the devil, but now I've opened my eyes. Seeing nothing but good 5w20 analysis results has that effect on me. I say the proof is in the reports.

 

[shoz123]

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Originally posted by Roger: I now use 5W20 in my Escape for one reason, and one reason only...Ford's warranty.

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Rodger, does Ford NOT recommend 5w30 or 10W30 at all?

 

[Idrinkmotoroil]

[/qb][/QUOTE]With that said, would anyone be interested in a virgin analysis of Honda 5W-20?? I have been thinking about doing this since I am running Honda 5W-20 in my sister's 2003 Civic EX, and plan on changing and sampling at 3000 mile intervals with this oil. -Joe[/qb][/QUOTE]I think I seen a virgin analysis of Honda oil on BillGXE's analysis spreadsheet. Jay did an analysis of used Honda factory fill oil. Interesting differences was that the factory oil was loaded with moly, while the refill oil didn't contail moly. I think Castrol has nailed their GTX formula by introducing a good dose of moly into their 5w-20 vis. . Castrol surely realizes that such an oil needs the extra AW additives to protect the engine when using a low vis. (20 weight) conventional oil. Perhaps good synthetic 5w-20 oil may be good enough on its own, but with a conventional 5w-20 I would want the extra moly to protect my engine. [ December 22, 2002, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: Idrinkmotoroil ]

 

[Roger]

My Escape owners manual only recommends 5W20 oil, nothing else. Here is what it says: "SAE 5W-20 engine oil is recommended. Only use oils “Certified For Gasoline Engines” by the American Petroleum Institute (API). Use Motorcraft or an equivalent oil meeting Ford specification WSS-M2C153–H. SAE 5W-20 oil provides optimum fuel economy and durability performance meeting all requirements for your vehicle’s engine. Do not use supplemental engine oil additives, oil treatments or engine treatments. They are unnecessary and could, under certain conditions, lead to engine damage which is not covered by your warranty. Change your engine oil and filter according to the appropriate schedule listed in the scheduled maintenance guide. Ford production and aftermarket (Motorcraft) oil filters are designed for added engine protection and long life. If a replacement oil filter is used that does not meet Ford material and design specifications, start-up engine noises or knock may be experienced. It is recommended you use the appropriate Motorcraft oil filter (or another brand meeting Ford specifications) for your engine application." A separate warranty book goes on to state that it is void if the recommended oil is not used. So for the duration of the power train warranty, I'll use the best darn 5W20 oil I can find.

 

[joee12]

Originally posted by Idrinkmotoroil: "I think I seen a virgin analysis of Honda oil on BillGXE's analysis spreadsheet. Jay did an analysis of used Honda factory fill oil. Interesting differences was that the factory oil was loaded with moly, while the refill oil didn't contail moly." Idrinkmotoroil, I looked at bill's spreadsheet and only saw a factory fill of Honda 5w20 that had a little over 3000 miles on it. I looked on his virgin analysis spreadsheet and it was not listed. I will email him, and if he verfies that he does not have it, I will send it in the morning. -Joe [ December 22, 2002, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: joee12 ]