Wet belt engines

[38Chevy454]

I have one of the GM 3.0 inline 6 diesels in my 1/2 ton Silverado. It has the wet belt design driving the oil pump at the rear of the engine. Mine is spec'd for 150K miles, but newer now have 200K interval. The belt change process itself is fairly easy - once you remove the transmission! The belt is like $40 part, and then the cover plate is also replaced, so the replacement of the belt is not the problem. It is the extensive labor to remove the transmission off the engine just to get to the belt. About a 20 hour book labor process in total.

 

[UCN195]

I’m of the opinion that a properly designed wet belt in an engine using oil that is changed at reasonable intervals and not overheated extensively will last indefinitely.
The Ford 2.7 and 5.0s with the wet oil pump belt haven’t had any real problems.
Also, I don’t think age will be that big of an issue considering how many old Honda GCVs are still running with the original wet timing belt.
The failed ones were made from the wrong materials.

That said I’m not sure what real benefits there are to them besides possibly manufacturing cost.

 

[Gyro Gearloose]

Sad to say, but looking at it from a number of failures standpoint, wet belts have become a better refined more reliable technology than cams/lifters and cranks/bearings.

 

[barryh]

That said I’m not sure what real benefits there are to them besides possibly manufacturing cost.

Quieter and slightly more efficient than a dry belt. Manufacturers will do things for the minutest improvement in mpg but it's a false economy if an owner then has a very high cost to replace the belt at 60K or whatever. Unless wet belts last the reasonable life time of the engine then they can't be cost effective from the owners perspective.

 

[Cujet]

Quieter and slightly more efficient than a dry belt. Manufacturers will do things for the minutest improvement in mpg but it's a false economy if an owner then has a very high cost to replace the belt at 60K or whatever. Unless wet belts last the reasonable life time of the engine then they can't be cost effective from the owners perspective.

These wet belts will last exactly the lifetime of the engine, to the minute!

On a more serious note, I tend to keep my vehicles well into the 200 to 300K mile range. Traditionally 15 years. However my X-Type is now 23 years old and coming up on 250K. It keeps going without any major repairs, so I keep driving it.

I suspect the belt in my F150 will easily do that. There are already examples of Ford's wet oil pump belt reaching beyond that.

 

[DukeOfFrontenac]

Timing belt news: Ford Recall

In other news, minimal maintenance on a cheap car "not a good idea", experts say.

 

[Exhaustgases]

Timing belt news: Ford Recall

In other news, minimal maintenance on a cheap car "not a good idea", experts say.

When it comes to materials and defects that have been purposely engineered into an automotive product, the laws should be that, if its a proven defect like noted in the article, then it becomes a life time warranty, and that all related failures will all be fixed for free.
Maybe a good incentive to do it right the first time.

 

[Hootbro]

When it comes to materials and defects that have been purposely engineered into an automotive product, the laws should be that, if its a proven defect like noted in the article, then it becomes a life time warranty, and that all related failures will all be fixed for free.
Maybe a good incentive to do it right the first time.

In a perfect world that would be great.

 

[PandaBear]

 

[Hootbro]

Europeans kind of bore the brunt of early wet belt tech with their extend change interval habits not helping things.

 

[PandaBear]

Europeans kind of bore the brunt of early wet belt tech with their extend change interval habits not helping things.

I have heard the same problem with a 1.0L Civic wet belt engine in UK only market as well.

 

[Hermann]

I like wet Breaded Pork Tenderloins.

AKA with gravy

 

[Exhaustgases]

In a perfect world that would be great.

No you mean in a country that really cares, got nothin to do with the world.

 

[Hootbro]

No you mean in a country that really cares, got nothin to do with the world.

Still ain't happening.

 

[zzyzzx]

I have one of the GM 3.0 inline 6 diesels in my 1/2 ton Silverado. It has the wet belt design driving the oil pump at the rear of the engine. Mine is spec'd for 150K miles, but newer now have 200K interval. The belt change process itself is fairly easy - once you remove the transmission! The belt is like $40 part, and then the cover plate is also replaced, so the replacement of the belt is not the problem. It is the extensive labor to remove the transmission off the engine just to get to the belt. About a 20 hour book labor process in total.

They probably expect the transmission to fail before the wet belt, and that you would replace the wet belt as part of a transmission replacement.

 

[zzyzzx]

That car manufacturers put TPS (tire pressure sensors) on their new vehicles because the vehicle owners are too lazy to check their tire pressure or don't know how.

Possibly so, but I thought that all cars made after a certain point because it's legally mandated (and IMO, probably because the thought that it would increase average real world MPG).

 

[jhs914]

The (nearly) indestructible oil pump drive is that of a direct, crank-driven gerotor type design. As seen in the old modular Ford motors (4.6L, 5.4L, 6.8L) and some other brands. IMO, this type oil pump is the best, and probably one of the reasons you see 4.6L 2v Grand Marquis and Crown Vics with literally hundreds of thousands of miles on them with little trouble.

Good to know since I just bought an 09 Grand Marquis.

 

[thastinger]

Agree.

Also agree on the crank-located gerotor pumps being the best. Why do you think that the designs even went away from that? I can see oil pump priming being faster if the pump is submerged in the oil pan, but not enough to matter.

??

M

I have 4 of these 2V 5.4 engines and a 5.8, all with this crank snout direct driven oil pump. I recall this also being controversial when fist introduced because all previous oil pumps had been submerged in the fluid.
This design work out, but I'll not be buying anything with wet pump or timing belts.