Water Bombers

Joined
Dec 31, 2017
Messages
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Location
SE British Columbia, Canada
Water Bombers have been mentioned in the news lately. Yesterday we had four water bombers picking up water at Premier Lake, and dumping on a fire near Fort Steele, BC. that was threatening houses.

The Dehaviland DHC 515 is scheduled to begin production in a plant near Calgary, Alberta. With the recent problems with fires, I expect it well be well received.

Here is a shot.

4A4309C0-DA96-4DE8-A2C7-20A79DFB7BA0.jpeg
 
I wonder if these water bombers are leased and travel about as icebreakers and huge combines do.
Cal-Fire usually rents a few for fire season here. FWIW Santa Barbara Airport, SBA, had a fire bomber base on site but it closed a few years ago. There were tons of complaints from nimbys who moved here with full knowledge of an airport being the single largest piece of land in the area but were surprised when they heard plane noises. That base arguably saved thousands of homes over the years, but now they have to fly in from Santa Maria which adds time.
 
Yup, move in next to an existing airport....then complain about it.

Maybe they think, "Hmm....we paid full price for the house (because we're jerks) but if we get the airport closed, we'll then get our money's worth.
Craziness right! Same sort of thing with racetracks IMO.

You moved in knowing it was there. Sorry about your luck.

Just my $0.02
 
Very cool, holds about 6.75 tons of water (1621 gallons)
I still can't believe that the specially outfitted 747 that was essentially put out to pasture. It holds 2 to 3 times the retardant that a normal fire fighting aircraft holds plus it has pressurized nozzles
 
No offence J_R, but those videos were massively disappointing.
I still can't believe that the specially outfitted 747 that was essentially put out to pasture. It holds 2 to 3 times the retardant that a normal fire fighting aircraft holds plus it has pressurized nozzles
Costs, especially those regarding resurrecting a fallow jet aircraft and paying qualified pilots, might have something to do with it.
 
747 is crazy expensive to fly and maintenance per flight hour costs big $$$$.
An old DC-7 could probably fly for 2 days on the cost to fly 2 runs of a 747. But naaa they pretty much banned any plane that did not have a fuel gulping turbine engine for that job.
 
Yup, move in next to an existing dragstrip... then complain about it.

Maybe they think, "Hmm....we paid full price for the house (because we're jerks) but if we get the dragstrip closed and kick those heathens out onto the streets, we'll then get our money's worth and our streets will be safer.”
FIFY, but yes. Your statement too. 🤬
 
These are sometimes leased and some countries, that have large water surfaces, buy them. Croatia probably has strongest fleet per sq mile. In the beginning of 2000’s they bought 6 CL415 for some $215mil. They already had know-how from former Yugoslavia that operated CL-215.
It is excellent airplane and I spend a lot of time with folks flying them there. However, they are good choice only for certain areas. For example, in Colorado we would not be able to use them efficiently. In Croatia, all areas prone to fires are some 50-70miles from the coast, and most endangered ones some 25miles deep. They are also used in Bosnia under agreement between Croatia and Bosnia. And that is very good example that it is not for everyone. Bosnia has dry climate in Herzegovina part with a lot of spruce. But also gets huge amounts of moisture, and it is only European country with rain forests. So, utilization of CL415 is questionable at best. It is better to spend money on helicopters. They work all year around. Croatian CL-415 are basically stationary for 8 months. They do trainings but that is about it. Still, 1/3 of Croatian GDP is from coastal tourism, so they paid off fast. They are right tool for country like that or Greece, southern France, Spain, Portugal, some parts of Turkey. I know that San Diego county lease them from September to December during Santa Ana winds.

Still, the demand for them is ridiculous. CL215 is still sought after, IF one can be found. So DHC 515 I think right now has wait period of 7-10yrs. I worked on some stuff with Bosnia to develop fire fighting capabilities and we briefly looked at it and it is insane wait period and price will be seriously high.

This video is from Bosnia and shows their limitations in steep terrain, canyons. This is where helicopter is much better. Of course, downside is that helicopter cannot carry that much water. Colorado just acquired two SH70 “Firehawk’s” and they seem better solution for most countries, states, counties.

 
I still can't believe that the specially outfitted 747 that was essentially put out to pasture. It holds 2 to 3 times the retardant that a normal fire fighting aircraft holds plus it has pressurized nozzles
It is insanely expensive with questionable capabilities. Once it makes drop it takes too much time to make turn around. That is if airport close by has all necessary equipment to fill retardant. In Colorado Springs for example it is easy as it is one of hubs that has all equipment and hosts 12 (I think) C130’s equipped with all stuff to drop retardant. So when Waldo Canyon and Black Forest fires happened, it was ok. Still, much longer turn around than helicopters that were taking water from rivers, house pools etc. Last year when CA was going through tough time you could fallow on Flightradar24 those airplanes and see how long it took them to refill retardant. They had to make trip from Yosemite to Sacramento and make one drop in 2hrs. CL415 would do by then 6-7 drops at least from local reservoirs.
That 747 was stationed here in Colorado Springs and from get go it was questionable project.

Edit: to add more on 747: it was Haifa fire that sealed its fate. It proved to be absolutely useless. Croatia sent I think 3 CL415’s, and Greece, Italy etc. sent couple each, and they did much better job, still limited in certain cases as dropping 6 tones of water on civilian structures is no joke. Now imagine what would 747 do if they dropped load of water (they used water there) on structures? The problem of course is that to make it profitable, you need that thing working all months, not just fire season. Most countries won’t pay $100,000 per hr cost, with questionable effectiveness. We use retardant here which has its use, but in other countries they don’t. It is too expensive. So, 747 has to do same thing as CL415 or helicopters, but needs much more infrastructure, appropriate airport, and very limited turn around.
 
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I remember taking my kid to see Planes: Fire and Rescue. That featured a bunch of different aircraft types, but in it almost all the aircraft had previous duties.

 
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