OVERKILL: pretty toasty temps I see
The great lakes are warm!
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https://www.mlive.com/weather/2020/...water-in-102-years-possible-by-july.html
Higher temperature more evaporation BUT what about water level..I like to believe mother nature balance itself herself out how strange it may seem.
Higher temperature more evaporation BUT what about water level..I like to believe mother nature balance itself herself out how strange it may seem.
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
So, due to this crazy heat wave, the great lakes are all pretty warm (with the exception of Superior). This of course means any thermal power plants that is using these bodies of water for cooling are going to be impacted.
Ontario has three nuclear power plants that use the great lakes as their cooling source:
1. Bruce Nuclear, the world's largest NPP at 6,430MW (presently) and consists of 8 units spread over two packs of 4, sites A and B. It is located on the shores of Lake Huron.
2. Darlington Nuclear, a single 4-pack of 3,512MW located on Lake Ontario
3. Pickering Nuclear, two 4-packs, but two units are shuttered, so 6x units totalling 3,100MW located on Lake Ontario
Lake Ontario is of course downstream from the other lakes, and also significantly smaller than Huron. This appears to be having an impact on output:
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2020/07/full-21028-46369-screen_shot_2020_07_10_at_12.21.44_pm.png "[Linked Image]")
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2020/07/full-21028-46370-screen_shot_2020_07_10_at_12.23.59_pm.png "[Linked Image]")
If we look at Darlington units 1 and 2, these are 878MW nominal units. Contrast those to Bruce B unit 7 at 822MW and we can see how much of a difference lake temperature can have on output. Pickering output is also down, and proportionally, even moreso than Darlington, for the same reason. Overall, Darlington output is down 167MW right now, which isn't a lot in the big scheme of things, but still worth mentioning. I've never seen a unit at Bruce produce more than a unit at Darlington, so this morning, observing just that, was a first for me.
I refer to Bruce Unit 7 as a rock star, because it consistently produces much higher than nameplate. But it is obvious that Lake Huron temperatures and larger sink capacity have a decided advantage when conditions are as they are now.
For those interested in why Pickering output would be more impacted than Darlington, the inlet/outlet arrangements at all three plants, which I've mentioned in a previous thread, are different.
Pickering: Its inlets are directly on the front of the plant, outlets are on the side.
Bruce A/B: Its inlets are offshore (conduit that runs along the bottom for each 4-pack out into the lake), outlets are at the shore
Darlington: Its inlet is roughly 1km offshore similar to Bruce, outlet diffuser is also offshore, run at an angle and distanced downstream from the inlet
So Pickering would be ingesting the warmest water of the group (and can also be impacted by algae blooms) and Darlington and Bruce are simply limited by overall lake temperatures. Current temps offshore from Toronto are 25.5C, whereas Huron is 17C near Bruce.
For those wondering about the absent units:
- Bruce 1 just set a site record of 693 days continuous operation and went down for what appears to be an unplanned maintenance outage
- Bruce 6 is offline for the next two years for refurbishment.
- Pickering 8 is down for a scheduled maintenance outage and I expect will be back soon.
Darlington 1 is currently well on its way to beat the world operation record of 940 days, it hit 895 days yesterday.
Mother nature has no compassion it balance itself does what it has to do. Now if the heat wave is to cut the water level down it does nothing man can do about it.
So, due to this crazy heat wave, the great lakes are all pretty warm (with the exception of Superior). This of course means any thermal power plants that is using these bodies of water for cooling are going to be impacted.
Ontario has three nuclear power plants that use the great lakes as their cooling source:
1. Bruce Nuclear, the world's largest NPP at 6,430MW (presently) and consists of 8 units spread over two packs of 4, sites A and B. It is located on the shores of Lake Huron.
2. Darlington Nuclear, a single 4-pack of 3,512MW located on Lake Ontario
3. Pickering Nuclear, two 4-packs, but two units are shuttered, so 6x units totalling 3,100MW located on Lake Ontario
Lake Ontario is of course downstream from the other lakes, and also significantly smaller than Huron. This appears to be having an impact on output:
If we look at Darlington units 1 and 2, these are 878MW nominal units. Contrast those to Bruce B unit 7 at 822MW and we can see how much of a difference lake temperature can have on output. Pickering output is also down, and proportionally, even moreso than Darlington, for the same reason. Overall, Darlington output is down 167MW right now, which isn't a lot in the big scheme of things, but still worth mentioning. I've never seen a unit at Bruce produce more than a unit at Darlington, so this morning, observing just that, was a first for me.
I refer to Bruce Unit 7 as a rock star, because it consistently produces much higher than nameplate. But it is obvious that Lake Huron temperatures and larger sink capacity have a decided advantage when conditions are as they are now.
For those interested in why Pickering output would be more impacted than Darlington, the inlet/outlet arrangements at all three plants, which I've mentioned in a previous thread, are different.
Pickering: Its inlets are directly on the front of the plant, outlets are on the side.
Bruce A/B: Its inlets are offshore (conduit that runs along the bottom for each 4-pack out into the lake), outlets are at the shore
Darlington: Its inlet is roughly 1km offshore similar to Bruce, outlet diffuser is also offshore, run at an angle and distanced downstream from the inlet
So Pickering would be ingesting the warmest water of the group (and can also be impacted by algae blooms) and Darlington and Bruce are simply limited by overall lake temperatures. Current temps offshore from Toronto are 25.5C, whereas Huron is 17C near Bruce.
For those wondering about the absent units:
- Bruce 1 just set a site record of 693 days continuous operation and went down for what appears to be an unplanned maintenance outage
- Bruce 6 is offline for the next two years for refurbishment.
- Pickering 8 is down for a scheduled maintenance outage and I expect will be back soon.
Darlington 1 is currently well on its way to beat the world operation record of 940 days, it hit 895 days yesterday.
Mother nature has no compassion it balance itself does what it has to do. Now if the heat wave is to cut the water level down it does nothing man can do about it.
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Lake Huron rolls, Superior sings
In the rooms of her ice-water mansion
Old Michigan steams like a young man's dreams
The islands and bays are for sportsmen
And farther below Lake Ontario
Takes in what Lake Erie can send her...
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
Lake Huron rolls, Superior sings
In the rooms of her ice-water mansion
Old Michigan steams like a young man's dreams
The islands and bays are for sportsmen
And farther below Lake Ontario
Takes in what Lake Erie can send her...
And the iron boats go as the mariners all know, in the gails of November remembered.
Great song.
Chilling line:
Superior they say, never gives up her dead when the gails of November come early.
Here's a profile of the lakes BTW (taken from one of my nuclear friends on Twitter):
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2020/07/full-21028-46423-great_lakes.jpg "[Linked Image]")
Lake Huron rolls, Superior sings
In the rooms of her ice-water mansion
Old Michigan steams like a young man's dreams
The islands and bays are for sportsmen
And farther below Lake Ontario
Takes in what Lake Erie can send her...
And the iron boats go as the mariners all know, in the gails of November remembered.
Great song.
Chilling line:
Superior they say, never gives up her dead when the gails of November come early.
Here's a profile of the lakes BTW (taken from one of my nuclear friends on Twitter):
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Much cooler day today here (high of 25C) and this has given the lake a much needed break. Output at Darlington is working its way back up, will be interesting to see where it sits tomorrow morning:
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2020/07/full-21028-46452-screen_shot_2020_07_12_at_4.28.28_pm.png "[Linked Image]")
Originally Posted by Lubener
Originally Posted by JimPghPA
If the lakes go into winter warmer it will take longer for them to freeze over, if they freeze over at all, and while they are not frozen they will put more moisture into the atmosphere which SHOULD result in more rain when it is not cold enough to snow, and more snow when it is cold enough, until the lakes freeze over.
There are more factors involved than just warmer water temperature and lake effect snow. Cleveland went into winter with a very warm lake. It never froze this past winter. The winds across the lake were never in line from the right direction and speed to produce lake effect snow and we received less than half of what is a normal seasonal snowfall. Lake effect rain happens less often than lake effect snow.
I expect the lakes also STARTED warmer...we had a pretty mild winter.
Originally Posted by JimPghPA
If the lakes go into winter warmer it will take longer for them to freeze over, if they freeze over at all, and while they are not frozen they will put more moisture into the atmosphere which SHOULD result in more rain when it is not cold enough to snow, and more snow when it is cold enough, until the lakes freeze over.
There are more factors involved than just warmer water temperature and lake effect snow. Cleveland went into winter with a very warm lake. It never froze this past winter. The winds across the lake were never in line from the right direction and speed to produce lake effect snow and we received less than half of what is a normal seasonal snowfall. Lake effect rain happens less often than lake effect snow.
I expect the lakes also STARTED warmer...we had a pretty mild winter.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Darlington still creeping up, looking good, however it looks like Bruce 7 might be headed offline:
Yep, I was thinking the same thing as well.......
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Bruce B7 didn't go offline, just reduced output, so I expect it will ramp back up. Still waiting for Pickering 5 to come up to nameplate (it just came back from an outage) and Darlington units are now only about 10MW off from nameplate (each).
We've already had one heatwave, and from what I see, it looks like we're headed towards a second.
It will be an interesting fall and winter! I'm not a fan of lake effect rain , or any rain, but there may be a good amount of lake effect snow this winter. Bring it on!
It will be an interesting fall and winter! I'm not a fan of lake effect rain , or any rain, but there may be a good amount of lake effect snow this winter. Bring it on!
I was down in Sheboygan, Wisconsin recently and the beaches were packed like I have never seen before. It has cooled down a little bit over the past few days but will warm up again over the weekend.
As bad as the winters can be in my part of Wisconsin I much prefer them to the summers just because our area is impacted by ground level ozone throughout the summer. That with common allergens causes my respritory issues, sometimes severe, to act up.
As bad as the winters can be in my part of Wisconsin I much prefer them to the summers just because our area is impacted by ground level ozone throughout the summer. That with common allergens causes my respritory issues, sometimes severe, to act up.
Jackson_Slugger
$50 Site Donor 2022
The news weatherman said this is the earliest in July Lake Erie has ever reached 77F/25C....
My plants draw their cooling water from the Niagara river. Once the water temps approach 80F, which isn't unusual during a good summer, we're constantly fighting with keeping our equipment cool. Regardless, it's still nicer than battling with cooling towers.
Last week both Thurs and Friday we were power curtailed in the late afternoon for ~4hrs. We had to shed ~20MW. That's always good times.
Last week both Thurs and Friday we were power curtailed in the late afternoon for ~4hrs. We had to shed ~20MW. That's always good times.
This is a great post btw thank you!
The natural ocean currents work with a combination of the temperatures, the amount of salt, and the amount of water. There may very well be a tripping point where the natural ocean currents will stop or drastically change. If that ever happens it will have many effects, on ocean life, and on weather patterns.
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