was looking at my suzuki- decided to buy some arx...

[mdocod]

Ok... here's the deal... as some of you may already know- I have a 2001 Suzuki swift, I bought it a few months ago with 53k on it. I brought it home, changed the oil- put in some castrol 5w30 gtx for a short run. after about 2500 miles, I switched it over to Mobil 1 EP 5w30, I intend to continue using this oil. Girl friend swears it runs smoother and stronger with this stuff...(she is primary driver)

I was changing my 95 isuzu rodeo(175k) over to GC tonight, and decided to pull the swift in the garage to check on consumption and have a peek inside. consumption on the previous change was nadda- over 2500 miles not a drop lower on the stick- the EP seemed to loose an ever so slight amount after 1k (1/10th a quart or so). While I had the hood propped and was looking around- I pulled out a flashlight and had a look down in the hole.. uho. SLUDGE.... really worried now- has me thinking that the previous owners probably neglected oil changes.

So I started poking my finger around- more sludge. was was able to pull up some globs on my finger off of one of the "towers" that the cams run through....

So... I've got the rodeo- with the infamous tick- some folks on the board here suggested arx, some folks actually having totally eliminated their ticking with the arx, AND I have this suzuki with signs of sludge. I decided to break down and do it...

I placed an order tonight for 6 bottles of arx(it's cheapest per bottle that way).

I plan on removing the valve covers of both vehicles, taking pictures, reinstalling the covers. Adding arx, following the recomended proceedure, and after the final rinse is complete- I'll remove the valve covers again and post pictures of the results. (and of cource- include whether or not the ticking goes away, lol)..

question... I just put GC in my rodeo- I have heard that I can do the clean phase with synthetic, but not the rinse- is this true? Same thing with my swift- It has the Mobil 1 EP in it now- would like to do the cleaning phase on this oil, and then switch both vehicles over to some cheap dino (probably havoline or maybe just supertech 5w30) for a short duration rinse phase... might repeat if neccessary.. i'll have plenty of arx on hand for repeats and maintanence doses.

I've got a fair amount of the supertech here already- any reason I shouldn't use it for a rinse phase?

Anyone else heard of the little 1.3L DOHC suzuki motors being sludgers? or is it most likally the result of pevious owner neglect?

 

[gudmund]

have had 7 Metro/Swift's since Dec87 and none have had a problem with sludge. #1 254thou on 88 Metro3cyl/ #2 108thou 92 Metro3cyl(it died early death after hitting a fallen tree at 50mph)/ #3 31thou 95 Metro3cylsold early-couldn't stand the color anymore)/ #4 250+thou on 96Metro4cyl-still running today with dino in it/ #5 113+thou on 98Swift4cyl-todays driver/ #6 75thou 98 Metro3cyl sold(didn't care for power of 3cyl after driving 4cyl's / #7 43thou 01 Swift so far. Never had sludge problem with any of them. This not to say there was no sludge in any of them for I did use regular dino oil which does leave some sludge byproduct in the first 3 or 4 of them and there probaly was some build up but it never turned into a problem. The 98 has had M1-Ams-GC since 11thou miles and it is CLEAN inside!(the 01 had 41thou when I got it and looks good -have M1 in it also) The 1.3 motor you have is 4v per cyl but is NOT a "DOHC"- it has just one(1) camshaft working all 16 valves. Some of the earlier Swift's had doubles but were mostly sold in Canada-thur 94 models and were rated with upwards of 100HP in the HIPO versions- the motor you and I have came out in 98 and were rated at 79HP and were never considered a HIPO version like the earlier ones. If you remove the cover from the Swift make sure you check the tappet adjustments for this motor does require it. The spec's for the clerances usally are posted on a placerd on the underside of the hood. Now the timing belt is a odd thing-GM says to replace it at 100thou-- Suzuki says 60thou- they are the same engine- same belt!!! before my 95 NONE of my earlier ones even had a mile replacement interval requirement in any of the owner manuels- they just said to inspect the belt every 30thou. I have run them as far as 160+thou with no problem(the 96Metro & 130thou on the 88Metro) I just changed the belt on the 98Swift at 111thou. It is a very easy belt to change youself if you do you own mechanical work, 1 to 2 hours-no problem.

 

[Bobby Johnson]

mdocod,
I am currently using Supertech in my 1994 Honda Passport(Isuzu Rodeo). I decided to go this route because I wanted a simple oil that wouldn't compete with the Auto-Rx. Seemed to work fine in the first vehicle I tried it in. It was a 2001 Isuzu Trooper, by the way.

If you haven't tried the Auto-Rx in Rodeo, please consider it to help with the ticking noise. The Passport runs much better now and I am only 1600 miles into the first rinse phase.

I feel I should warn you about something, however. Prior to using Auto-Rx, we would get a strange noise from the top of the engine from time to time. If I were to pull over and shut the vehicle off, the noise goes away. It is very hard for me to describe except that it sounds like some sort of high speed belt operation.

I tell this because about fifty miles into the rinse phase the engine started to really make this strange noise. Since I was driving on a freeway at the time, I was not able to pull over right away. By the time I did, the noise was gone and the engine was running much smoother.

Now that I am 1600 miles into the rinse phase, there seems to be a pattern developing. Now the ticking only pops up when the engine is cold and at one other time. The engine will be operating normally, then the ticking will pop up, the strange noise comes in to replace the ticking, and after a few more miles the both the ticking and the strange noise are gone.

This cycle is driving my brother nuts with worry since the Passport is his "baby." On the other hand, I now look forward to these episodes because the engine operates noticeably better after each time. More power, smoother acceleration, and muted engine noise are some of the benefits I am noticing with the Passport so far.

My theory at this time is that Auto-Rx is flushing out sludge from around the lifter area and that is why the strange noise keeps popping up.

I am convinced Auto-Rx is safe to use and works very well. I wanted to warn you in case you experienced any strange noises during the clean and rinse phases.

 

[Ugly3]

SuperTech dino oil is perfect for the rinse phase.

 

[raynorway]

MDOCOD,
Syntetic is okay in clean phase, the instructions say 1500 miles and take synth in count, the old instructions said 750 miles...
Pure mineral oil is best for rinse, and will also help stopping seal leaks.

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

Super tech and A-Rx, perfect together!

 

[mdocod]

cool, glad to hear it- was going to use straight 5w30 supertech in the zuki for the flush, and a mix of what's left of that and some delo 400 I have here in the rodeo... Trying to use up some of the random stuff I have around here.

I am getting the digi cam ready for picts and stuff... I think i'll probably do the zuki first... it's got about 1000 miles on the EP already- so- maybe in another 1000 I'll get started on the treatment... in the mean time- i'll try to make a point to get the cover off and take some picts... hope the sludge doesn't turn out to be only isolated under the fill cap- would really make me feel dumb, lol... (kinda doubt it though)..

oh yea.. I checked the pcv on the swift.. still clicks- So the sludge isn't related to that I don't think... Only thing I can think of is previous owner neglect.

 

[uconn1150]

You can use syn for the clean, but I'd go longer (2x) on the mileage, but that is just me. Just be sure to have a "new" oil fiter and maybe change it out halfway and cut the sucker open.

 

[mdocod]

ok- took the valave cover off tonight... here's a look inside...

http://photobucket.com/albums/b72/mdocod/zooki before arx/

 

[mdocod]

didn't have time to comment on the picts earlier... but to say the least- this thing looks to be sludged and varnished something awfull- for only having 57k on it- this is unbelievable- I'm kicking myself for not knowing more about this kinda stuff when I bought it a few months ago... At $2500 I thought I got a good deal- which it would have been if the car had been in better shape- but looking at the gunk under the valve cover- i'm led to believe that this car may have NEVER seen an oil change in the hands of it's previous owner- or possibly- only saw a few oil changes- far less than it should have gotten. Luckily- it runs very well, burns little to no oil, doesn't leak, and gets the fuel ecnomy equal to or better than factory listings... So I'm crossing my fingers that there is nothing seriously wrong.

I'm wondering if I should go easy on the first arx treatment- as not to dislodge too much gunk all at once and cause more problems. Any suggestions on how I might go about using this product "cautiously" would be apreciated.

 

[Winston]

Doesn't that engine have a small sump? 3-4 quarts? As everyone here says. Just follow the instructions. They give a dosage per quart. Isn't it 2 oz. per quart?

Cant wait to see the "after" pics.

I would not worry too much about the engine. It does not burn oil, it runs great, no problem. I would question all the other maintenance on the car. I would definately change all the fluids; transmission, coolant, brake fluid flush, etc. I would also change the belts. The speedometer may have been disconnected or the speedo rolled back.

 

[mdocod]

i don't think you can roll back a odometer on a 2001- pretty sure there are preventative measures in place... in eithor case.. car-fax didn't show any signs of the milage being out of wack. hard to say though.... but I have plans to do the works of fluid changes like you were suggesting.

i'm going to wait on the belt/timing belt till around 75k.

 

[mdocod]

Dragging my old post back up for an update....

I'm well into the rinse phase of ARX on the rodeo, The results are overall good, though some weird stuff is going on....

The ticking is much quieter than it was before arx... but through the rinse phase, it seems to be getting slighty louder than it had quited down to towards the end of the clean phase... Morning starts are a bit noisier than they had quited down to during the arx... I think a lot of this might be because I used a 50/50 mix of delo 15w40 and supertech 5w30 for the rinse (was stright 5w30 during the clean).... resulting in thicker oil, which probably just doesn't flow as well in the morning, and probably doesn't flow fast enough in and out of the little hydrolic adjuster to keep it pumped up as well as thinner oil....After this rinse phase is done, (a few weeks from now).. i'll switch to straight 5w30 supertech for another clean phase.

Oil consumption is weird.... During the later part of the arx clean phase, consumption was down, by about 40% of normal.... (still consuming, just less)... During the rinse phase, the consumption has been weird. On one particular day, I was seeing blue smoke out the tailpipe under hard acceleration and off the line, this is the first time I've noticed "significant" amounts of blue smoke out the back... but then, at the same time, the compression *feels* better than it was... morning starts have a lot less blue smoke. The day it seemed to be burning a noticable amount.. I decided to drop it in second gear, and wrap it up and down the rpm range and few times(wrapped up to 5k, then let off, let it engine brake down to 3k, and back up to 5k, up and down a few times), to maybe help re-seat the rings... I think it helped, not noticing the smoke out the back as much anymore... But consumption in the first 500 miles into the rinse phase was about 30% more than I usually would see in 500 miles on this thing. (1qt/1k was normal before arx, and is common on isuzu engines, even when relativally new)... I'm hoping the rings are just still in the proccess of re-seating... maybe after all the cleaning, things need to "re-break-in" a little bit...

Power is better, I'm sure of it... seat of the pants-o-meter, in my case, can be said to be fairly accurate, because I drive the same hills every week while delivering pizzas, I know what gears used to pull those hills, and what gears would let me accelerate on those hills, overall, I'm doing everying thing a gear higher than I used to.. I can lug up hills in 5th gear@1100rpm@~30mph that I used to barely be able to maintain in 4th gear. I can maintain a long steep one at 45mph in 5th gear that I used to downshift to 4th for also... 4th will now accelerate up that hill, where, before arx, 4th would barely maintain the hill, had to drop to 3rd to accelerate. You could say that I've "gained a gear," worth of power.

To say the least, I am, overall, very pleased.. and excited to continue through the rinse and finish out another arx cycle.

I never did take the valve cover off the rodeo, sorry, there won't be any pictures of this engine... It's a fairly big project, and I need to do a lot of work when I am going to tear it open anyways, I was too actious to get going on the arx with all that ticking that was going on. I can report based on tear downs of filters.... The first 2 filters, I only ran on the arx for about 250 miles each, out of fear that they might clog, (small filter for the size of the engine imo)... They had some minor sludge between the pleats, nothing major, just some grit that I could easily come up with by rubbing a finger through it.. Then I left a 3rd filter on through the remainder of the clean phase, it came back with a somewhat significant amount of stuff on it.. though not enough to clearly see anything in a photo(not thick buildups), just enough that I can rub a finger on a pleat and come up with a significant amount of black grit. I'll get some picts of what could be rubbed off here soon.. I'm still awaiting a filter from the rinse phase, (will have it in another 1400 miles or so)


The suzuki... Hasn't started arx yet- though I will be here sometime soon... Since I posted this, We've only put 2500 miles on the Mobil EP that I had put in there... I wanted to run the Expensive Mobil out to at least 4k before dumping it and starting an arx treatment with supertech and a new filter. (going to use Mobil 1 filters for the suzuki from here on out).

I pulled the valve cover off the suzuki again tonight, to see if the EP was doing anything... Nothing to note, still equally dirty. (I'm going to keep an eye on that, so that any cleaning the arx does, is purely arx related, I want before/after photos to be accurate, and not reflect any cleaning done by the oil that is in there now) I'll probably wait on the arx treatment untill I am using that car for delivery, So, I can get it up to temp, and rack up the miles faster on it... Also I want to be done with the arx in the truck when I start the zuki, I don't want to try to keep track of all these short intervals and keeping an eye on things in 2 vehicles at the same time. The filters from the zuki should be an interesting thing to look at when I get going on the arx. hehe.

 

[Quest]

mdocod-

On Suzukis, make sure you replace the PCV valve first.

Also, if you are considering keeping it for quite some time, consider replacing/testing your thermostat with factory units (no aftermarket plse) with the exact temperature point. DO NOT, under any circumstances, replace something with too hot or too cold of a range for the computer management/engine will not like you for that.

Lastly: take the car on a couple of highway trip and prepare to do some oil changes during rinse phase with oil filter replacement every several hundred miles. That should take care all but most of the sludge you have on your valve area.

 

[mdocod]

quote:

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On Suzukis, make sure you replace the PCV valve first.

---

The PCV system is working properly, and it looks like the valve was replaced at some point recently. (it doesn't look factory, and works like new). good clicking action, and plenty of vacume.

this was one of the first things I looked at when I discovered the sludge. (I should have mentioned that)


Thankyou for the note about the thermostat- I was wondering about that actually... it does come up to temp, but it seems to take longer than it should, seems awfull young to need a replacement already, but i'll check into it.

quote:

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take the car on a couple of highway trip and prepare to do some oil changes during rinse phase with oil filter replacement every several hundred miles. That should take care all but most of the sludge you have on your valve area.

---

Like I was saying, I was thinking about waiting untill I am using this vehicle for delivery, at which point, it will be brought up to temp, and stay there pretty well throughout a days use- not neccessarily highway driving, but insures that things are HOT for a good amount of the driving. I'll try to bring it out on the highway at some point during the cleaning for awhile.

I was already planning on modifying the ARX recomendations for this engine.. at first I was just thinking I would follow the instructions, but I have decided, to take precaution, especially through the first clean/rinse phases...

I was thinking about more like 750-1000 miles on the clean phase, on dino oil. with a possible filter replacement halfway through. Then separating the rinse phase into 2 oil changes. (1 at 500 miles, 2 at 1000 miles, and then run that out another 1000 miles(for a total of 2000 miles) and start another clean phase)

I'll be keeping a close eye on the *look* of the oil thoughout, if it starts to get grimey, super-black, or the filter doesn't warm up with the engine, then i'll change it out.

 

[Eiron]

mdocod,

It's OK to run A-Rx longer than specified; just don't run it any shorter than recommended. The folks at A-Rx told me the only 2 things to remember are to keep changing the oil filter every 1,500 mi, & to keep the ratio of A-Rx constant. When I ran the A-Rx treatment on my '90 Saab 900, I already had 6k mi on M1 15W-50. I put the A-Rx in at that point, then ran it for another ~4,500 mi & changed the filter 3x. I pre-mixed 2 oz A-Rx to a new qt of oil I was using for top-up, then refilled with that when needed & after filter changes. If you do it this way, you'll get full use of the syn & a really good cleaning cycle. Then use whatever you want for the rinse.

 

[mdocod]

I would think that as the sludge is imulsified into the oil, it would quickly degrade the TBN of the oil- unless the ARX is keeping things in balance. I am just leary of the idea of running an oil for an extended duration that is being heavily contaminated by deposits. But i'll consider the possability of just using the Mobil that is in there now for the clean cycle. A filter change would make enough room for the arx in the crankcase to get the ball rolling.