VW may axe Taos and Jetta under restructure

[SC Maintenance]

However, I'm an enthusiast that still loves driving, and that sort of thing appeals to me in a wagon.

https://www.audiusa.com/en/models/a6/a6-allroad/2026/overview/

Only $73K.

I honestly was looking for an old beater wagon at one time. If its low enough I could keep my Kayaks on a roof rack and make it under the garage door, so I wouldn't have to unload them every outing.

 

[shortyb]

Yeah, I've seen that. Supposedly the next RS6 wagon will be based on the new 6, except a lot wider and meaner looking. Also, Audi is considering a plain ole A6 Avant without the Allroad cladding and whatnot. Thats a maybe .

 

[4wd]

As most have gathered, I'm a pretty big wagon guy. Best of both worlds, I suppose. Sporty handling with increased cargo capacity. Plus they just look cool . So, yeah, I'd gladly open my wallet for something like that. Not THAT much more than a new car of similar size ranyway. And look at all the Europeans that still buy (and drive) them. Don't think BMW, Audi, MB would still offer them, especially in very expensive M, RS, and AMG versions, unless people bought them do you? We actually have a few here in the good ole USA that are the same way.

However, I'm an enthusiast that still loves driving, and that sort of thing appeals to me in a wagon. I guess what we really need to ask is: Where have all the enthusiasts gone? The preference move to SUVs/CUVs happened when automakers convinced the driving sheep, uh, I mean public, that they NEEDED a bigger, taller, heavier vehicle because they could have a more commanding view of the road., or were "safer" because they were taller , blah blah blah . Once they set the hook, it was easy to get them out of wagons and into a much more expensive SUV, which at the time were just cheap people hauler bodies on pick-up truck frames. Most of the buying public follows the "me too" crowd and will put themselves in debt up to their eyeballs just to be like (or better than) anyone else. And we still have folks paying 100K+ for body on frame Escalades. /rant.

That allot - but I don’t have a truck - tow the RV with the Tahoe - boats and utility trailer with the Jeep - even in deep sand …
Utilize the cargo space quite often - it’s allot …
We have two cars that handle pretty well - decent on gas …
Escalade? Heck, lots of Super Duty trucks hitting that price area code these days - those are incredible mark ups for not much difference …

 

[RBT]

The owner of the DQ down the street from me owns a red one for the last 7 years. I do a double take when driving by. It’s a good looking wagon. It was on my radar back when they came out, then GM and Opel went their separate ways and I was worried about future parts. I bought a VW Golf Alltrack instead.

View attachment 349726

Great cars. Had to be in Belgium for three weeks for work pre pandemic and rented the opel version with a manual transmission. Really enjoyed that car.

 

[Carmudgeon]

I suspect not. If you look over the years nice wagons were available and no one bought them. There was a TSX wagon, Volvo sold wagons until recently, BMW has wagons they can import. VW sold wagons not that long ago. No one wanted them.

Its along the same lines as everyone here complaining about where are the cheap simple cars, but no one here bought a Sentra or a Mits, and Suzuki gave up and left years ago for the same reason.

Yep. Each OEM will have their own criteria for what they will accept as a valid business case. Also depends on what how strongly the local importer will lobby for a model, and whether those in the home office listen and agree. VW has long has some serious issues in those respects when it comes to the U.S. market.

Not unlike the IndyCar fans who bemoan the number of oval tracks on the schedule, but don't show up at those races.

BMW sells almost no wagons in the USA anymore. A couple are available, but I never see them, and I pay attention.

In Europe its an entirely different story for sure. When I go to Germany I see tons of wagons. In fact last trip I rode in some sort of Audi wagon for a pretty good trip. I don't know which - I was not the driver and paid no attention.

Even when BMW offered wagons here, they sold in minuscule volumes. But as a brand, and a business, they can and do explore niches that wouldn't work for others, though not as readily as they did in the past.

I loved my old 240 wagon's utility. It was also a lot more space efficient than modern SUV/CUVs.

Making rental car arrangements for a group of six, and their luggage in Europe, was more difficult than one might expect, with the goal of trying to avoid two separate vehicles and the hassle that would involve. The fleets there are geared toward smaller vehicles in general, so large ones have to be reserved in advance.

Even so, the cargo capacity of even mid- and large-sized sedans and hatchbacks wasn't sufficient. With few options, booked a Peugeot 5008, and thankfully, it worked out well. Externally, it's about the same size as an X3, maybe even smaller, but can do three rows in pinch and has more interior space. Sub 2.0l turbodiesel and a six-speed manual. Barely enough room to squeeze into some Italian roads, especially in the older parts of town. Also had a Seat Alhambra in Germany, and it also had plenty of space. Minivans are the ultimate passenger utility vehicle, but the market has spoken; it wants image instead.

 

[AZjeff]

However, I'm an enthusiast that still loves driving, and that sort of thing appeals to me in a wagon. I guess what we really need to ask is: Where have all the enthusiasts gone?

Maybe they're aging out and not interesting in zooming around anymore, or realize they shouldn't be zooming around any more? More interested in being able to get in and out of the car? What is the enthusiastic driving you do? Just curious.

 

[97prizm]

As most have gathered, I'm a pretty big wagon guy. Best of both worlds, I suppose. Sporty handling with increased cargo capacity. Plus they just look cool . So, yeah, I'd gladly open my wallet for something like that. Not THAT much more than a new car of similar size ranyway. And look at all the Europeans that still buy (and drive) them. Don't think BMW, Audi, MB would still offer them, especially in very expensive M, RS, and AMG versions, unless people bought them do you? We actually have a few here in the good ole USA that are the same way.

However, I'm an enthusiast that still loves driving, and that sort of thing appeals to me in a wagon. I guess what we really need to ask is: Where have all the enthusiasts gone? The preference move to SUVs/CUVs happened when automakers convinced the driving sheep, uh, I mean public, that they NEEDED a bigger, taller, heavier vehicle because they could have a more commanding view of the road., or were "safer" because they were taller , blah blah blah . Once they set the hook, it was easy to get them out of wagons and into a much more expensive SUV, which at the time were just cheap people hauler bodies on pick-up truck frames. Most of the buying public follows the "me too" crowd and will put themselves in debt up to their eyeballs just to be like (or better than) anyone else. And we still have folks paying 100K+ for body on frame Escalades. /rant.

The biggest problem is that the US requires crash and epa testing on every single model combination sold. BMW had to crash test and emissions test the M5 sedan and wagon separately at roughly 1 million for each body style. If they added a manual transmission option then double it.

 

[andrew_j]

Taos wins out in top 5 vehicles people would not buy again. My sister in law had one for 6 months and hated it.

Good riddance to that. Tiguan is superior and should introduce a lower trim if price matters.

 

[shortyb]

Maybe they're aging out and not interesting in zooming around anymore, or realize they shouldn't be zooming around any more? More interested in being able to get in and out of the car? What is the enthusiastic driving you do? Just curious.

Yeah, maybe. A lot of my enthusiast friends are starting to sign up for Medicare and Social Security .

I have lots of really sweet mountain roads close by that are still quiet and not filled with slow moving RVs. They lead to some pretty cool places and I enjoy pounding the twisties getting there. Lots of focus on handling, brakes, and tires. No more dedicated track running, maybe an occasional Autocross for fun and to keep my skills sharp, but thats it. ALWAYS love riding in interesting and sport focused cars, especially when wielded by someone that knows what they're doing.

The biggest problem is that the US requires crash and epa testing on every single model combination sold. BMW had to crash test and emissions test the M5 sedan and wagon separately at roughly 1 million for each body style. If they added a manual transmission option then double it.

Hey! I'm worth it! And I believe I still have credit on my account with the devil. Haven't sold him my entire soul yet .

 

[SC Maintenance]

The biggest problem is that the US requires crash and epa testing on every single model combination sold. BMW had to crash test and emissions test the M5 sedan and wagon separately at roughly 1 million for each body style. If they added a manual transmission option then double it.

I do not believe this to be correct.

EPA yes, but CAFE is a very simple test. The vehicle drives 21 miles. That should bring up some further discussion.

NHTSA crash tests are not every trim or powertrain, and usually I think only when the model is brand new. Most OEM's self certify each year, and the government will chose models at random to test at that point. Very low volume trims are never tested usually although I suppose they could be if the NHTSA wanted or there was complaint.

 

[zzyzzx]

Again-the answer to affordability and availability of sedans lie with the Chinese. Even if Ford and GM bring them back-they are not going to be cheap. That's just reality.

And the reason why Ford / GM / Stellantis can't import vehicles from third world countries and sell them in the US, but the Chinese can is???

 

[CKN]

And the reason why Ford / GM / Stellantis can't import vehicles from third world countries and sell them in the US, but the Chinese can is???

I dont know. It probably isnt profitable for them- that's why.

 

[97prizm]

I do not believe this to be correct.

EPA yes, but CAFE is a very simple test. The vehicle drives 21 miles. That should bring up some further discussion.

NHTSA crash tests are not every trim or powertrain, and usually I think only when the model is brand new. Most OEM's self certify each year, and the government will chose models at random to test at that point. Very low volume trims are never tested usually although I suppose they could be if the NHTSA wanted or there was complaint.

I talked with the VP of Ford roughly 12 years ago at a college presentation. I and other picked his brain about rules and regulations after the presentation. Yes every body style has to be separately crash tested, as do each transmission type and drive type. When Subaru made the limited WRX STI RA for the USA in 2018 Subaru had to re crash test and Carb and epa emissions test it. There was a write up and it cost Subaru NA 2 MILLION to certify the limited 500 production run. He told me and I've read this from other sources that if a Transmission option falls below a 10 percent take rate it's usually canceled.

 

[SC Maintenance]

I talked with the VP of Ford roughly 12 years ago at a college presentation. I and other picked his brain about rules and regulations after the presentation. Yes every body style has to be separately crash tested, as do each transmission type and drive type. When Subaru made the limited WRX STI RA for the USA in 2018 Subaru had to re crash test and Carb and epa emissions test it. There was a write up and it cost Subaru NA 2 MILLION to certify the limited 500 production run. He told me and I've read this from other sources that if a Transmission option falls below a 10 percent take rate it's usually canceled.

Except that does not match NHTSA own documentation.

The NHTSA buys there own cars for testing off the lot - to ensure they don't get any factory ringers. So that would be you and my tax dollars.

Also - OEM's self certify. That doesn't mean they don't pay a lot of money for testing - because I am sure they do because the cost of being wrong could be much greater than the tests, so it does not surprise me that Subaru spent $2M testing a model, but that is not a NHTSA requirement. So if Subaru wanted to rely on their Euro testing as you suggested, they in theory could. They would then be responsible for any shortcomings.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/interpretations/2792y

the United States does not have an approval process. In the United States, a manufacturer of motor vehicles or motor vehicle equipment must certify that its products will comply with all applicable safety standards. Each of this agency's safety standards specifies the test conditions and procedures that this agency will use to evaluate the performance of the vehicle or equipment being tested for compliance with the particular safety standard.

 

[97prizm]

Except that does not match NHTSA own documentation.

The NHTSA buys there own cars for testing off the lot - to ensure they don't get any factory ringers. So that would be you and my tax dollars.

Also - OEM's self certify. That doesn't mean they don't pay a lot of money for testing - because I am sure they do because the cost of being wrong could be much greater than the tests, so it does not surprise me that Subaru spent $2M testing a model, but that is not a NHTSA requirement. So if Subaru wanted to rely on their Euro testing as you suggested, they in theory could. They would then be responsible for any shortcomings.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/interpretations/2792y

the United States does not have an approval process. In the United States, a manufacturer of motor vehicles or motor vehicle equipment must certify that its products will comply with all applicable safety standards. Each of this agency's safety standards specifies the test conditions and procedures that this agency will use to evaluate the performance of the vehicle or equipment being tested for compliance with the particular safety standard.

I don't see how a manufacturer can self-cerify if the EPA and CARB requires documentation showing that it meets all requirements. The USA became way too difficult to certify small batches until recently. Check out this article from carbuzz on how future emissions testing is making it harder for manual transmission option vehicles.
Manual transmission emissions testing

 

[SC Maintenance]

I don't see how a manufacturer can self-cerify if the EPA and CARB requires documentation showing that it meets all requirements. The USA became way too difficult to certify small batches until recently. Check out this article from carbuzz on how future emissions testing is making it harder for manual transmission option vehicles.
Manual transmission emissions testing

Specific to EPA - most of the data again comes from the OEM's themselves, and the EPA tests some percentage - trust but verify. As well EPA testing is not destructive, and again I believe - although I have not confirmed this - that they also procure there own cars so as not to get a factory ringer.

https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/fuel-economy-and-ev-range-testing

EPA confirms approximately 15% of all test results, but it is the manufacturers that are responsible for providing the fuel economy data used for labeling.

The government is not forcing the OEM's to submit to testing or pay Govco - there simply publishing the standards that need to be met which the OEM's can self certify. Still expensive I am sure, but its up to the OEM.

CARB - California Air Research Board - is a California thing and only required in I think 5 states? The OEM's could import no problem without CARB and just not sell in those states.

 

[Wylie6G72]

Rented a Taos in Florida this past spring. They'd be doing the public a service.

 

[KrisZ]

We should pay attention to what's happening to VW because likely the same will happen to Ford and Chevy.
They refuse to innovate and reduce prices, but instead, every time there is a crisis, their solution is always to cut models and staff, aka "consolidate". In the end, they will offer a handful of models that are still expensive and they will act surprised they're loosing market share. Then, they will ask for taxpayer money. Rinse and repeat.

 

[TimeFlies]

Interesting, the wife wants a new car, and we will soon be shopping. Not many good cars left to choose from.

 

[JeffKeryk]

We should pay attention to what's happening to VW because likely the same will happen to Ford and Chevy.
They refuse to innovate and reduce prices, but instead, every time there is a crisis, their solution is always to cut models and staff, aka "consolidate". In the end, they will offer a handful of models that are still expensive and they will act surprised they're loosing market share. Then, they will ask for taxpayer money. Rinse and repeat.

VW's problem, or one of their key problems, is their distributed (and old) factories, specifically far too many of them. This creates factory underutilization with excess unused capacity, far too many employees, supply chain nightmares. Overhead cost nightmares...

VW employs roughly 60% more workers than Toyota despite producing a comparable number of vehicles. And we are solidly in the age of automation. Automate or slide into history.

Close factories, lay off 100K, and consolidate manufacturing.

CEO Blume has numerous difficult decisions to make. VW faces high restructuring costs, plunging profits in China, and falling operating margins. It won't be pretty.