VW ID.4 reservations exceed 40k+

Jeffs question still stands, whats the margin on the cars?
Vercingetorix said:
From his webpage:
As a hyper-sensitive person and what experts call an Asberger, I luckily have some valuable skills that help me to find some seeds of truth that others can’t find and mostly don’t even see.
Today, I don’t need my “secret superpowers” because I received an accidentally leaked internal Volkswagen document (special thanks to Antoine). It gives us interesting insights into how VW management incentivizes dealers for every ID.4 sold.
The confidential Volkswagen document on my desk has been sent to French dealers and allows me to prove some misinformation — or what some of you may want to call lies from Volkswagen. It also enables me to state that claims Greenpeace made recently about VW are correct.

He cannot even lie correctly about his “Asberger”. It’s Asperger and if he had it you would think he would know how to spell it. And he doesn’t even have a direct source to VW documents, thanks Antoine? Clown show.
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Is he lying or just a douchebag?

He's a poor speller for someone charging per article.

Only employees or dealer have "direct" sources.

Does it matter if he gets company information directly if what he gets is accurate and a real company doc?
 
Yes it does matter where he gets his information. It must be able to be confirmed in order to be credible. This is first year college stuff. Any decent reporter will tell you the same. His whistleblower said this, Antoine gave me that is not journalism, it’s trolling for hits on his webpage.
 
UncleDave said:
He posted it in the article and said he got it from a French dealer (who which Im sure pissed off VW)
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Did you read the date of that document? It’s dated before the vehicle ever went on sale. It’s also in French. It’s also not complete. It’s not really a document of any kind, just a jpg of what looks to be a sales brochure. Maybe someone here can translate from the French? Quick google of marge de base means basic margin. I’m guessing that’s probably a minimum the dealer can expect on the lowest spec model with no options Or markups.
 
Vercingetorix said:
Did you read the date of that document? It’s dated before the vehicle ever went on sale. It’s also in French. It’s also not complete. It’s not really a document of any kind, just a jpg of what looks to be a sales brochure. Maybe someone here can translate from the French? Quick google of marge de base means basic margin. I’m guessing that’s probably a minimum the dealer can expect on the lowest spec model with no options Or markups.
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He said it was from a French dealer - thats why its in French. (they are always happy to whizz on anyone when they can)

Its normal for prices and programs to arrive before the car. (or any product)

If he's printing lies why hasn't he been sued?

I dont see whats so damming regardless, just that the car doest pay the margin an ICE car does.

Did the world expect these would be fat margin cars?

The margin problem is why Telsa sell direct. There isnt much room in EV's for a middleman.
 
But his argument is in English, He needs to present evidence in English. He’s not getting sued because his “evidence” is always from somebody else. Antoine, the whistleblower etc. You believe him all you want. I’m still waiting for 60% of the Taycans to catch fire or get new batteries, or whatever.
 
Vercingetorix said:
But his argument is in English, He needs to present evidence in English. He’s not getting sued because his “evidence” is always from somebody else. Antoine, the whistleblower etc. You believe him all you want. I’m still waiting for 60% of the Taycans to catch fire or get new batteries, or whatever.
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I dislike the guy for different reasons than you dislike him, but I dont believe he manufactured this dealer price.

I'm not sure he "needs" to do much of anything. I agree that would certainly be nice if it were an english memo, in an english journal

It is what it is, there are always journalists leaking stuff.

I sell global products. Prices and company memos always land randomly all over the place - most often making sure Im not violating some of the zillion EU regs I have to navigate as a manufacturer selling globally.

He has an agenda and states it then creates hysteria around peoples decisions about being green, or being just enough green to comply vs all in.
 
As far as the guy who wrote the article about dealer margins, I don't has "Asbergur", but I do have pretty keen insight as well... And my insight tells me that guy spends his free time moonlighting for the National Enquirer... I'm glad he's come up with the "groundbreaking, shocking expose" that says exactly what everyone knows: margins are thin for EV's when mfg's first start selling them. SHOCKING!

Of course VW is subsidizing their EV's w/ICE sales. Tesla subsidized early sales with VC money. When something on this scale is in its infancy, it takes money. Not sure why this is surprising people.

To Jeff's question though, this doesn't answer it. Dealer margin and mfg margin aren't remotely the same thing. I expect that at this point, they're losing money on the ID's. I doubt that will last forever.
 
Jack Watts said:
As far as the guy who wrote the article about dealer margins, I don't has "Asbergur", but I do have pretty keen insight as well... And my insight tells me that guy spends his free time moonlighting for the National Enquirer... I'm glad he's come up with the "groundbreaking, shocking expose" that says exactly what everyone knows: margins are thin for EV's when mfg's first start selling them. SHOCKING!

Of course VW is subsidizing their EV's w/ICE sales. Tesla subsidized early sales with VC money. When something on this scale is in its infancy, it takes money. Not sure why this is surprising people.

To Jeff's question though, this doesn't answer it. Dealer margin and mfg margin aren't remotely the same thing. I expect that at this point, they're losing money on the ID's. I doubt that will last forever.
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You can make that case, but I am still curious.
My question is partially about "wait till the big boys get in". VW has been making cars for a long time. I have owned a few myself.
Can anyone tell me why no legacy car maker breaks out margin by EV vs ICE?
Isn't the ID.4 based on an existing platform?
 
I have no certainty but my guess is VW is profitable on the ID.4. They have mastered high quality production at low cost.
 
RooflessVW said:
MEB is a new platform. It may share some language similarities to MQB/MLB but I think that is to be expected.

Ford will be using the platform for one or two new models as well.
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The e-tron is based on an existing platform IIRC, not sure about the Q4 e-tron. They both strike me as being well executed, though I have not driven the Q4.

The Mach-e is of course also based on an existing platform, and despite teething pains, Ford seems to be doing well with it.

We'll be seeing electrified versions of the RAM 1500 and the Grand Wagoneer, which are both based on the DT platform, which had electrification as part of its design plan.

There are benefits of using familiar architecture in terms of assembly, parts availability...etc which keeps costs down, which is important on this learning curve. The big issue appears to be heft. The EV's from the Euros (and Ford) are heavier than their Tesla counterparts, in the case of the i4 vs Model 3, as noted in the racing video from the other thread, the difference is considerable. But, as is typical German fashion, these cars are far less decontented than a Tesla, use better materials, probably more sound deadening, and there's a lot more "stuff". That adds weight.

Tesla's ground-up approach had weight as a consideration, clearly, and their extremely spartan interiors aide in achieving that, same with platform development.
 
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