VW 507.00 vs CBEA spec for DPF?

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: phlfly
So what is more important A3/B3/C3 spec or Ash =< 0.8 for VW diesel engine?
The ACEA Cx designation tells you the ash level. C3/C2 etc.

IIRC the euro OEM approvals piggyback on the ACEA spec.

 

[phlfly]

I'm trying to understand how is important A3, B3 spec. I understand C3 shows ash level, but VW 507 spec is required ash level should be = So if M1 5w30' ash is already .8 then what is reason to use such expensive oil. The Diesel engines are bullet proof and don't have a very precise clearences as gasoline engine and designed to work at low rmp anyway.
So any opinions?

 

[Mathson]

Originally Posted By: riggaz
Hasn't this all come about because the thread starter miss quoted the amount of saps in the Amsoil oil?

VW 504.00 507.00 oils are not 1.5 % saps they are no more than 0.8% so the Amsoil cannot be 1.5%.

Amsoil, like most other oil companies, will buy an additive package from Lubrizol or other additive companies that meets the spec quoted so I wouldn't panic about using it, you could always do a UOA to make sure it's behaving itself.

Riggaz


Afton Chemical Spec Handbooks states VW504/507 sulphated ash %wt (DIN 51575) max. 1.5.
So the limitation isn't coming from the VW, but ACEA C3?

 

[phlfly]

Originally Posted By: Mathson
Originally Posted By: riggaz
Hasn't this all come about because the thread starter miss quoted the amount of saps in the Amsoil oil?

VW 504.00 507.00 oils are not 1.5 % saps they are no more than 0.8% so the Amsoil cannot be 1.5%.

Amsoil, like most other oil companies, will buy an additive package from Lubrizol or other additive companies that meets the spec quoted so I wouldn't panic about using it, you could always do a UOA to make sure it's behaving itself.

Riggaz


Afton Chemical Spec Handbooks states VW504/507 sulphated ash %wt (DIN 51575) max. 1.5.
So the limitation isn't coming from the VW, but ACEA C3?


So then what is wrong to use general synthetic Mobil 1 5w30?

 

[Garak]

Your HTHS would be off using a normal 5w30, though, correct?

 

[phlfly]

yes it's kind. VW 507 spec required HTHS is 3.5 and M1 5-30 is 3.1 I don't see ahuge differences between.
It's not like BMW HTHS 3.8 vs M1 3.1.

And one more how many time does your engine gets to 150 C, the normal operating temp of your engine is 100 C for gasoline engine and it should be even lower for diesel.

 

[Garak]

You are right, it's not THAT far apart between 3.1 and 3.5. On the other side of the issue, how many of the approved oil are at the minimum limit? How many are substantially higher?

In some ways, the Europeans are as bad as the North Americans/Japanese. Here, we specify usually one viscosity (actually a range, given the way API specs work, of course) with dire warnings for straying. In Europe, they just use a specification, one aspect of which, in essence, specifies a similarly tight viscosity range. When I had my old Audi, it called for 5w-20 to 20w-50 depending on temperature. And I'm sure that VW/Audi didn't redesign engines from the ground up when they came up with the 3.5 figure and specification.

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of straying from specifications unless one has a good reason or thought process for doing so. Short tripping and shorter OCIs for a European engine might make a different oil choice sensible.

From a cost perspective, though, what's the advantage? Up here at least, M1 5w30 and 0w-40 cost the same in the one litre bottles, as does Syntec 5w30 versus GC. We don't have the big jugs of 0w-40 up here yet, though, so that would make things hard to compare in that respect.

 

[phlfly]

Then only problem with 0w-40 is high ash 1.3 level for diesel DPF system. I was considered to use it but ash level is too high.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: phlfly
I'm trying to understand how is important A3, B3 spec. I understand C3 shows ash level, but VW 507 spec is required ash level should be = So if M1 5w30' ash is already .8 then what is reason to use such expensive oil. The Diesel engines are bullet proof and don't have a very precise clearences as gasoline engine and designed to work at low rmp anyway.
So any opinions?
A3/B4/B3 are long drain specs. Cx is for emissions (DPF/TWC). Some countries force the oems to warranty emissions systems well passed factory warranty.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: phlfly
I was considered to use it but ash level is too high.

I could be mistaken, but I thought the M1 0w-40 was on the list.

Nonetheless, if you were to go for an out of spec choice, I'm not sure I'd go with the regular 5w30 M1. I'd still be looking for something with a little higher HTHS, and I'm not sure what else is missing from "vanilla" M1 5w30 versus a speced lube. Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40 has SA around 1, as does the Delvac 1 ESP 0w-40, and at least the former is very affordable up here. We do have some HDEOs in 0w30 up here, without excessive TBN, but I doubt you can get them down there.

In any case, if it were me, I'd prefer to stick with a specified lube, or not stray too far from it. We definitely need someone in this thread who has a bit more familiarity with the ACEA diesel sequences and what might be a suitable alternative outside the official list, and I know who that is, but we put him on the spot way too often as it is.

One may simply have to sit down and compare some spec sheets the hard way. Petro-Canada also has a rather long list of various HDEOs from 0w30 on up, with fairly comprehensive spec sheets (including ACEA approvals, ACEA meet or exceed, and so forth).

 

[phlfly]

I found a good place to buy Total INEO 505/507 or as called in the rest the world LongLife for 37 bucks for 5 qt.
Opinion? I don't know anything about Total, only it's same as Elf and sponsoring Red Bull F1 team.

 

[m37charlie]

Originally Posted By: phlfly


And one more how many time does your engine gets to 150 C, the normal operating temp of your engine is 100 C for gasoline engine and it should be even lower for diesel.


The theory is that temps at the bearings and rings frequently exceed 150C.

Charlie