been using VR1 20/50 in a circle track car since Brad Penn is so high now used to get it 3-4 dollars a qt we are using the grey VR1 sbc solid 555 cam no problems but its only the 3rd race tonight my reason for asking is i think a lot of these oil comapanies are lying to us in one way or another like a corporate lawyer wrote the response lol?
VR1 is SN/SM/SL could somebody explain this
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Could you rephrase your question? Possibly using periods, rather than writing one indecipherable run-on sentence?
Anyway, I think the answer to your question is that 10W-40 grades and above do not have the same tight Zn/P restrictions that 10W-30 and below have.
Anyway, I think the answer to your question is that 10W-40 grades and above do not have the same tight Zn/P restrictions that 10W-30 and below have.
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sorry about that i am using my phone,that is not what i got out of their site i tried to paste it but couldnt it is still rated SM/SN/SL wouldnt that mean 800 ppm max?
Originally Posted By: jsnyder49090
sorry about that i am using my phone,that is not what i got out of their site i tried to paste it but couldnt it is still rated SM/SN/SL wouldnt that mean 800 ppm max?
According to Valvoline's website it is 1400/1300 zinc/phos so you should be good. I thought SN had a limit of 800phos. but I guess I am wrong.
sorry about that i am using my phone,that is not what i got out of their site i tried to paste it but couldnt it is still rated SM/SN/SL wouldnt that mean 800 ppm max?
According to Valvoline's website it is 1400/1300 zinc/phos so you should be good. I thought SN had a limit of 800phos. but I guess I am wrong.
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i wouldnt believe a [censored] thing on that site or any and thats what i thought too.I just need to know whats up i dont have a high dollar motor but my boys son is winning and we dont need any set backs the site is confusing to me and i remember a while back someone else was questioning this and some bad blackstone reports ??
As has already been posted, the phosphorus limits are different for the heavier grades of oil. Heck, look at dual rated HDEOs. There are plenty of SM/CJ-4 15w-40s out there with 1400 ppm ZDDP.
the site says the 20w/50 is API SN/SM/SL doesnt that mean 800 ppm max?? it also says the 10w30 has the same zinc as the 20/50???? how can that be? then it says you can use this oil in any vehicle suv etc ??? http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/vr1_racing.pdf SN cannot have the needed zinc from everything i have read .
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800 ppm max is the limit when discussing an oil that is SM/GF-4 or SN/GF-5. There are different rules with resource conserving ILSAC rated oils. Also, oils that are thicker than resource conserving grades have higher limits. 10w-40, 15w-40, 20w-50, and straight grades have different rules.
As for the 10w-30, take a look at your linked sheet again. The 20w-50 is SN rated. Therefore, it can have more than 800 ppm because it's 20w-50. The 10w-30 is only SH rated. That's why it can have 1400 ppm of zinc.
The sheet says VR-1 can be used in any vehicle where SN is required, but note that it states to look below at the viscosity rating. It's not a big deal, and I don't know why Ashland bothered to certify 20w-50 and their straight grades as SN. What vehicles out there require SN 20w-50 or SN straight grades?
As for the 10w-30, take a look at your linked sheet again. The 20w-50 is SN rated. Therefore, it can have more than 800 ppm because it's 20w-50. The 10w-30 is only SH rated. That's why it can have 1400 ppm of zinc.
The sheet says VR-1 can be used in any vehicle where SN is required, but note that it states to look below at the viscosity rating. It's not a big deal, and I don't know why Ashland bothered to certify 20w-50 and their straight grades as SN. What vehicles out there require SN 20w-50 or SN straight grades?
Thanks for shedding the light on that but i am still paranoid wasnt a bunch of this oil tested and it came in much lower than advertised?
I wouldn't worry about testing. Some of the tests we have seen simply weren't right, as can be seen when comparing some VOAs versus the PQIA's tests. When one does a $40, one gets what one pays for. That's not to knock any oil analysis companies, but one needs to observe caution or find information from more than one source.
As for oils that definitely had less ZDDP than one would think, yes, that happens. Most of those are from shady companies.
I wouldn't worry about VR-1. It's from a reputable company and VR-1 is what I'd call one of Ashland's signature products. It's widely available (I can even find it up here) whereas a lot of competitors aren't. I'd believe it has the levels that Ashland says it does and use it without hesitation.
Ashland put a lot of work into that data sheet, and I appreciate it. There are certainly a lot of other companies out there that don't publish adequate data for many of their oils. Plenty of HM oils don't list ZDDP levels. Heck, the only time I see ZDDP levels listed on a sheet are for VR-1, a compilation sheet from XOM, and various HDEO data sheets.
As for oils that definitely had less ZDDP than one would think, yes, that happens. Most of those are from shady companies.
I wouldn't worry about VR-1. It's from a reputable company and VR-1 is what I'd call one of Ashland's signature products. It's widely available (I can even find it up here) whereas a lot of competitors aren't. I'd believe it has the levels that Ashland says it does and use it without hesitation.
Ashland put a lot of work into that data sheet, and I appreciate it. There are certainly a lot of other companies out there that don't publish adequate data for many of their oils. Plenty of HM oils don't list ZDDP levels. Heck, the only time I see ZDDP levels listed on a sheet are for VR-1, a compilation sheet from XOM, and various HDEO data sheets.
Your right i wish more companies would take the time to do the same.
Oh well. I'd use it. Surprisingly, at NAPA today, it wasn't much more money than their normal conventional. That's definitely another bonus over some of the boutique brands.
Originally Posted By: jsnyder49090
Thanks for shedding the light on that but i am still paranoid wasnt a bunch of this oil tested and it came in much lower than advertised?
Blackstone is famous for coming in low on Phosphorous content, to the point where Brad Penn actually posted a note on their website about it. Most of the time, they seem to get the Phos 15% low, but some times it comes in close to what the oil maker's PDS states. This inconsistency is why I don't use Blackstone for oil analyses. I trust Valvoline's and Brad Penn's data sheets more than I trust Blackstone's test results.
Thanks for shedding the light on that but i am still paranoid wasnt a bunch of this oil tested and it came in much lower than advertised?
Blackstone is famous for coming in low on Phosphorous content, to the point where Brad Penn actually posted a note on their website about it. Most of the time, they seem to get the Phos 15% low, but some times it comes in close to what the oil maker's PDS states. This inconsistency is why I don't use Blackstone for oil analyses. I trust Valvoline's and Brad Penn's data sheets more than I trust Blackstone's test results.
Originally Posted By: Garak
The sheet says VR-1 can be used in any vehicle where SN is required, but note that it states to look below at the viscosity rating. It's not a big deal, and I don't know why Ashland bothered to certify 20w-50 and their straight grades as SN. What vehicles out there require SN 20w-50 or SN straight grades?
Perhaps Valvoline certified VR1 20w50 to SN because it was low-hanging fruit. Looking at VOA's a while back, I concluded that VR1 is just Valvoline's PCMO with additional zddp, so if they have certified their PCMO's for SN, then it would be simple for them to get the SN certification for VR1. SN does have some benefits such as resistance to alcohol fuel dilution and Phosphorous retention than earlier API specs required. I wouldn't be surprised if 10w30 VR1 was also SN-worthy, except for the high Phos content.
The sheet says VR-1 can be used in any vehicle where SN is required, but note that it states to look below at the viscosity rating. It's not a big deal, and I don't know why Ashland bothered to certify 20w-50 and their straight grades as SN. What vehicles out there require SN 20w-50 or SN straight grades?
Perhaps Valvoline certified VR1 20w50 to SN because it was low-hanging fruit. Looking at VOA's a while back, I concluded that VR1 is just Valvoline's PCMO with additional zddp, so if they have certified their PCMO's for SN, then it would be simple for them to get the SN certification for VR1. SN does have some benefits such as resistance to alcohol fuel dilution and Phosphorous retention than earlier API specs required. I wouldn't be surprised if 10w30 VR1 was also SN-worthy, except for the high Phos content.
I certainly don't doubt that the VR-1 line is SN-worthy. I'm wondering why Ashland bothered at all. I give them credit for continually updating their product. I certainly don't know how to run an oil company, but I just wonder if it's worth it to actually SN certify a product that has no SN applications in the first place.
It's not just Ashland, either. SOPUS certainly has SN rated straight grades. Perhaps there are lawnmowers or other OPE calling for SN straight grades, but the warranties on them tend to be so short it isn't much of an issue anyhow.
It's not just Ashland, either. SOPUS certainly has SN rated straight grades. Perhaps there are lawnmowers or other OPE calling for SN straight grades, but the warranties on them tend to be so short it isn't much of an issue anyhow.
Originally Posted By: Garak
800 ppm max is the limit when discussing an oil that is SM/GF-4 or SN/GF-5. There are different rules with resource conserving ILSAC rated oils. Also, oils that are thicker than resource conserving grades have higher limits. 10w-40, 15w-40, 20w-50, and straight grades have different rules.
Good explanation. Also look here for a complete look at the differences between ILSAC GF5, API SN, and API SN with resource conserving designation. http://www.infineum.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/notebooks/gf5/DifferencesGF-5_SN_SN-RC.pdf
800 ppm max is the limit when discussing an oil that is SM/GF-4 or SN/GF-5. There are different rules with resource conserving ILSAC rated oils. Also, oils that are thicker than resource conserving grades have higher limits. 10w-40, 15w-40, 20w-50, and straight grades have different rules.
Good explanation. Also look here for a complete look at the differences between ILSAC GF5, API SN, and API SN with resource conserving designation. http://www.infineum.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/notebooks/gf5/DifferencesGF-5_SN_SN-RC.pdf
Originally Posted By: jake88
Originally Posted By: Garak
800 ppm max is the limit when discussing an oil that is SM/GF-4 or SN/GF-5. There are different rules with resource conserving ILSAC rated oils. Also, oils that are thicker than resource conserving grades have higher limits. 10w-40, 15w-40, 20w-50, and straight grades have different rules.
Good explanation. Also look here for a complete look at the differences between ILSAC GF5, API SN, and API SN with resource conserving designation. http://www.infineum.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/notebooks/gf5/DifferencesGF-5_SN_SN-RC.pdf
Yes, the API/EPA/etc. do NOT expect anyone (some of the VR1 bottles actually say "NOT STREET LEGAL!" right on them
) to put these old school, heavyweight oils into their new, sensitive O2 sensor and catcon-equipped vehicles.
Hence, the ability to give them the modern ratings despite their MUCH more stout, supposedly catcon obliterating, add packs.
Originally Posted By: Garak
800 ppm max is the limit when discussing an oil that is SM/GF-4 or SN/GF-5. There are different rules with resource conserving ILSAC rated oils. Also, oils that are thicker than resource conserving grades have higher limits. 10w-40, 15w-40, 20w-50, and straight grades have different rules.
Good explanation. Also look here for a complete look at the differences between ILSAC GF5, API SN, and API SN with resource conserving designation. http://www.infineum.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/notebooks/gf5/DifferencesGF-5_SN_SN-RC.pdf
Yes, the API/EPA/etc. do NOT expect anyone (some of the VR1 bottles actually say "NOT STREET LEGAL!" right on them
Hence, the ability to give them the modern ratings despite their MUCH more stout, supposedly catcon obliterating, add packs.
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