Voided Warranty?

Quattro Pete · Jan 31, 2013

Originally Posted By: blackman777
As example look at the 1/4 million customers who had their Toyota engines die at 20-30,000 miles & warranty voided, even when they had dealer records of regular oil changes.

Source?

I find this highly unlikely. It would have been all over the news and a basis for a massive class action suit.

The_Jake · Jan 31, 2013

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: blackman777
As example look at the 1/4 million customers who had their Toyota engines die at 20-30,000 miles & warranty voided, even when they had dealer records of regular oil changes.

Source?

I find this highly unlikely. It would have been all over the news and a basis for a massive class action suit.

It was 3.5 million cars effected

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2007/01/toyota_sludge_settlement.html

Cars covered:

• Camry 4 cylinder from 1997-2001,
• Camry 6 cylinder from 1997-2002,
• Camry Solara 4 cylinder from 1999-2001,
• Camry Solara 6 cylinder 1999-2002,
• Sienna 6 cylinder from 1998-2002,
• Avalon 6 cylinder from 1997-2002,
• Celica 4 cylinder from 1997-1999,
• Highlander 6 cylinder from 2001-2002,
• Lexus ES 300 from 1997-2002 and
• Lexus RX 300 from 1999-2002.

The_Jake · Jan 31, 2013

BTW, Toyota makes great vehicles but anyone doing extended OCIs with them is asking for issues.

bluesubie · Jan 31, 2013

After 15-20+ years of allowing 40 grades, and even 50 grades in severe conditions, Subaru of America drops 40 grades from the manual with the exception of "5W-40 conventional" being allowed for replenishment (no changes to the engine).

A guy on nasioc.com with a WRX goes to the dealer for a misfire and tells the dealer he's running RT6. The dealer purportedly calls SoA and they advise that the oil doesn't meet spec and is causing the misfire.

Dealer drains the newish RT6, puts in Subaru 5w30, and charges the poor guy $100 for an oil change. A week or so later the misfire code comes back.

-Dennis

Vikas · Jan 31, 2013

Some of you probably have more trust in UOA than I do. Does Blackstone figure out the grade of oil and manufacture of oil or you have to tell them when you send the sample?

I want only first hand answers and no speculation. I am very good at speculating and I don't need your help

Quattro Pete · Jan 31, 2013

Originally Posted By: bluesubie
with the exception of "5W-40 conventional"

Hahaha... good luck finding one of those.

Ken2 · Jan 31, 2013

Quote:
I've always been curious how an extended OCI with an appropriate oil could have a warranty claim refused. A mfg saying an engine was not maintained while simultaneously pointing at a spotless drivetrain.... It doesn't pass the everyman test. Not saying they wouldn't try, but really? would it stick?
The alternative would be to show oil analysis reports showing that the oil still had some life left in it when it was drained.

The whole thing is that when a warranty claim is submitted, you don't want to give them a reason to even try to deny the claim. Even a normal delay of getting the needed parts and scheduling the work is very difficult for some families situations. A delay of weeks or months while the claim is contested is much worse even if you win. Of course using an unrecommended motor oil will not void the warranty on the transmission or navigation system or anything not related to the claimed misdeed of the owner.

The so-called extended warranties, which are actually prepaid repair plans, can be worse. You must do what the fine print in the contract requires, or the company behind the contract has no legal need to pay anything for the repair.

scurvy · Jan 31, 2013

Originally Posted By: The_Jake
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: blackman777
As example look at the 1/4 million customers who had their Toyota engines die at 20-30,000 miles & warranty voided, even when they had dealer records of regular oil changes.

Source?

I find this highly unlikely. It would have been all over the news and a basis for a massive class action suit.

It was 3.5 million cars effected

Yes, a possible 3.5 million cars on the road with those engines, but how many of them were actually sludged up? I.e., out of the 3.5M population, what was the failure rate? blackman777 would have us believe that 7.1% of those engines died before 30k miles and Toyota voided their remaining warranty even if the dealer did all the oil changes... which sounds amazingly unlikely to me.

According to the linked article, "In 2002 Toyota admitted receiving 3,400 complaints about sludged engines" but nothing about total number of vehicles. The 3400 could be from any number of engines that are in the two classes of affected engines or not - there are no good statistics available from what I've seen.

simple_gifts · Jan 31, 2013

Originally Posted By: The_Jake
BTW, Toyota makes great vehicles but anyone doing extended OCIs with them is asking for issues.

Long OCI were only a bad idea for certain models mfg over 10 years ago; these years/models are well known.

many recent toyota are fine doing extended OCI; v8 tundras etc.

hatt · Jan 31, 2013

Aren't the sludged Toyota engines mainly because people didn't change their oil regular? I wouldn't be surprised if the quick lube places have a lot to do with engine sludge in supposed "maintained" vehicles.

KrisZ · Jan 31, 2013

Originally Posted By: hatt
Aren't the sludged Toyota engines mainly because people didn't change their oil regular? I wouldn't be surprised if the quick lube places have a lot to do with engine sludge in supposed "maintained" vehicles.

Not quite because Toyota shortened the OCI as a result of this fiasco. I'm sure lots of people neglected these cars, but also lots of people changed their oil at the recommended 7.5k mile interval. Obviously the OCI was too long.

Edit:
That's why I'm a bit weary of their new 10k mile OCI in everything. Sure, the customer is forced to use synthetic oil, but what good will that do if the oil level is never checked and the engine starts burning oil? 10k miles is a long time to be low on oil.

hatt · Feb 1, 2013

Originally Posted By: KrisZ

Not quite because Toyota shortened the OCI as a result of this fiasco. I'm sure lots of people neglected these cars, but also lots of people changed their oil at the recommended 7.5k mile interval. Obviously the OCI was too long.

Edit:
That's why I'm a bit weary of their new 10k mile OCI in everything. Sure, the customer is forced to use synthetic oil, but what good will that do if the oil level is never checked and the engine starts burning oil? 10k miles is a long time to be low on oil.

Your post nicely summarizes why people don't always trust the OM and why the one size fits all approach is flawed. OMs don't list OCI for when you use the cheapest oil you could find vs top of the line. Or the guy who does 95% highway vs the guy with not quite severe service.

blackman777 · Feb 1, 2013

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Were there really 250,000 failed Toyota engines due to sludgeing?

(nods). Yes. Remember that was over a 10 year span or about 25,000 per year. Or about 1/3 of a percent of their annual sales. Not a big number but large enough to involve a class-action lawsuit and an FTC investigation. Do a search on startpage.com and you'll find thousands of customers complaining: "My car died at 15k (or 20k or 25k or 30k) due to sludged oil, and Toyota refused to fix it even though I had dealer records of oil changes." And please (everyone) don't get mad because I'm criticizing Toyota. It is a THING like a rock or tree or building. It'd not worth getting your knickers in a knot.

Also I do think Toyota is a good brand with good engineering. They just don't honor their warranty.

Voided Warranty?

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