viscosity of various ATFs?

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I am sure it has been asked before, but I cannot find the answer after searching

what is the viscosity of current and past transmission fluids such as

Dexron III
Dexron VI
Toyota T-IV
Toyota WS
Honda DW-1
Honda Z1
Chrysler ATF+4
Mercon V
Mercon LV
SP-III

I don't need the precise viscosity number necessarily, just SAE type grade such as 10 weight or 5W-30 would be helpful
 
I believe all of those would be 20 grades. The 20 grade range at 100 deg C is 5.60 to 9.29, and I believe that all of those fluids are within that range. I understand that there are some special very low viscosity ATFs available now, but I don't recognize any from your list.
 
There are VOAs on many of those here at BITOG and the manufacturers websites have the most current Data Sheets on the newer stuff. Bottom line, though, most are in the SAE 20 range as Hokie said.

Interesting Tidbit: Look for a discussion on PQIA about ATF shearing. Some of the standard ATFs start almost as 30 grade and rapidly shear down to barely a 20 (if not less). They start off thick so they won't shear out of grade in the specified test interval, and there is evidence that some will shear out of grade. These are the mineral types. Some of the synthetics, Valvoline Maxlife is the one that comes to mind, starts out fairly low, which tends to underwhelm people looking at VOAs, at around 6 cSt, but doesn't shear (much). About midway thru the OCI, MaxLife actually thicker than many of the ones that shear a whole bunch (and usually do it fairly quickly). It was a very interesting revelation to me and there was some discussion here. Also, look for posts by Mola Kule and Whitewolf. Both those guys are very knowledgeable on ATFs.
 
I echo what Jim says; don't get hung up totally on a VOA of the fluid.

VOAs are a great place to start, and they can certainly inform us about stuff like additives (how much phos, how little calcium, etc), but vis is a bit ambiguous in a VOA. A UOA is much better at telling you how the vis will hold up.

DexVI is a perfect example. It starts around 6.0, but it resists oxidation and shearing MUCH better than the former DEX III it replaces. Not uncommon for a former Dex/Merc product to run from 7.x to 5.x in a matter of 10k miles. But folks nearly freaked out when the DEX VI came along at 6.0 starting. But it can stay near 6.0 for a LONG time.

Same conversation took place over at PQIA. The Maxlife starts below where a traditional DEX/Merc fluid is expected, but it can far outlast a traditional lube in vis retention. Ashland explained it to PQIA. Some folks believe it for the rational statement it is, others distrust it. It's for each individual to make up their own mind. But at least we have good information to make that decision.

Like nearly everything else, it's important to know the whole story, and take the inputs into consideration, as well at the outputs. Only with the totality of the situation will you understand the effect of one's decision.

In response to your direct question, they are all around a 20 grade, as a massive generalization.
 
Dexron III, Toyota T-IV, Honda Z1, Chrysler ATF+4, Mercon V
SP-III, average about 7.5 cSt@100C

Dexron VI, Mercon LV, Toyota WS, Honda DW-1 average about 6.0 cSt@100C

Here is a viscosity similarity chart:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/

As you can see for yourself, they are all SAE 20 Weights

Quote:
I don't need the precise viscosity number necessarily, just SAE type grade such as 10 weight or 5W-30 would be helpful


WHY?
 
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Originally Posted By: LScowboy
I am sure it has been asked before, but I cannot find the answer after searching

what is the viscosity of current and past transmission fluids such as

Dexron III
Dexron VI
Toyota T-IV
Toyota WS
Honda DW-1
Honda Z1
Chrysler ATF+4
Mercon V
Mercon LV
SP-III

I don't need the precise viscosity number necessarily, just SAE type grade such as 10 weight or 5W-30 would be helpful


I can't answer all of these, but I can tell you some of it:

DEXRON(R)-III approx 7.6 cSt KV/100'C and approx 18,000 cPs BV/-40'C

DEXRON(R)-VI, approx 6.0 cSt KV/100'C and approx 12,000 cPs BV/-40'C

Toyota WS, approx 5.6 cSt KV/100'C and approx 8,400 cPs BV/-40'C

Honda Z1, approx 7.2 cSt KV/100'C and approx 5,500 cPs BV/-40'C

Chrysler ATF4, approx 7.5 cSt KV/100'C and approx 10,000 cPs BV/-40'C

MERCON V, approx 8.0 cSt KV/100'c and approx 9,800 cPs BV/-40'C

Hope that helps
 
thanks!

this is the kind of authoritative information that makes BiTOG great!
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now I have one more question:

of the oils mentioned above, I cannot seem to find a definitive answer as to which ones are conventional, which are syn-blend and which are a full synthetic
 
Originally Posted By: LScowboy
thanks!

this is the kind of authoritative information that makes BiTOG great!
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now I have one more question:

of the oils mentioned above, I cannot seem to find a definitive answer as to which ones are conventional, which are syn-blend and which are a full synthetic


I know that we have all been here before but the question is how to define what 'blend' means and what does 'synthetic' mean?

To me synthetic means PAO/Ester which are still blends in most cases, for instance blending a PAO 6 with a PAO 2 which is in my definition a blend but still true synthetic but a 'blend' nevertheless.

Group III is not synthetic according to the German courts and I agree with them.

There is a real full synthetic DEXRON ATF but it is not well known. In Europe real full synthetics have been marketed since the mid 1980s and you can find a number of them listed on the ZF approval page ZF-TEML-14.

It really is a confusion about what is real and what is just a marketing game.
 
I understand and appreciate your technical point, however, no need to get all fancy with this, I am just looking for these ATF's grouped using the normal definition, i.e.

Castrol GTX SynBlend = synthetic/conventional blend
Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum or Castrol EDGE = full synthetic
Pennzoil Yellow Bottle = straight conventional oil
 
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If you don't want the technical answers, and are satisfied with the generic answers, then just visit any of the lube maker websites, read their info and rhetoric, and leave it at that. Any of them well tell you if they are conventional, semi or syn.


Seems to me two things are evident:
1) you already understand and know the answers before you get them
2) you really have no point to this thread other than to banter about stuff that has been discussed ad nauseam; a search would turn up hundreds of posts with this same info

This would not be the first time you seem to be trolling ...
 
I have looked up on many companys websites, their data sheets on specific ATFs and the data shows the cSt, temperature range etc., for all of their different ATF such as their Mult-iVehicle, DexronIII/Mercon, MerconV, DexronVI, ATF+4.

I HAVE NOT looked up specific ATF such as Honda DW-1, Toyota T-IV, MazdaMV, Mopar ATF+4 etc. but, would assume most are similar from brand to brand. I'd think that they'd have to be???
 
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LScowboy said:
I understand and appreciate your technical point, however, no need to get all fancy with this, I am just looking for these ATF's grouped using the normal definition, i.e.

But that is not what you asked for in the original post.

And, you were given the answer, ATF's fall into the SAE 20 weight category.
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
This would not be the first time you seem to be trolling ...


Sir, I deeply resent this remark, first of all I am no troll, in fact, on Club Lexus, the largest Lexus forum in the world, and many orders of magnitude the size of BiTOG, I am more highly regarded than you are here.

Just because you seem to miss your coffee some mornings doesn't give you the right to decide the sincerity of my questions, yes, I could research this for half a day and probably come up with the answers, however it is much more efficient if a BiTOG ATF expert answers my question in 30 seconds off the top of their head, just like if I were to solve your Lexus's not running right issue off the top of mine, which is even more amazing, given that I haven't even examined the car in person.

Or perhaps if you were to make a breakthrough in oil that benefits everyone and even the manufacturers take notice, as I have made a breakthrough in Toyota/Lexus ECU design defects thereby solving thousands of hitherto-fore unresolved car issues, you wouldn't feel so insecure as to have nothing better to do than to sit in judgment of others posts.

I don't see JimPghPA, or TallPaul, or Jim Allen or Hokiefyd or the dozens of other guru-smart people here doing that! (Neither did BOBISTHEOILGUY, rest his soul, and he wouldn't have stood for it!)

In fact, I would propose that, in spite of your fairly deep knowledge on oil and science and statistical analysis, YOU are in fact the troll of BiTOG, as I notice that many of your posts seem to spend far more time analyzing the irrelevance of whatever question is being asked, rather than actually answering the question and conveying useful information, which is the whole point of this place.

Being a curmudgeon is cute at first, but after a while it just makes you irrelevant if so many of your answers are just non-answers shooting down the question and/or the questioner, rather than getting on with information exchange, already. It's tiring!

And this is not coming from some BiTOG newbie either, been lurking and learning here a long time, I joined BiTOG in summer of 2002, userID: Moto Ace and no longer have the associated email account, but apparently I am gonna have to dig out my old account info and get it set up again in order to get past some of the prejudice based on join date in here - lol
 
Quote:
(Neither did BOBISTHEOILGUY, rest his soul, and he wouldn't have stood for it!)



As of May 27th 2013 he was still alive.

I do not know how he would have responded and neither do you.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
But that is not what you asked for in the original post.

And, you were given the answer, ATF's fall into the SAE 20 weight category.


yes and it was a very informative answer and much appreciated, then I asked a second follow-up question about which of those various ATF's were conventional dino vs. syn-blend vs. full synthetic, which was never answered
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Originally Posted By: LScowboy
...in order to get past some of the prejudice based on join date in here - lol

Not to point fingers at anyone in this thread, but there's definitely some of that, "I've been on here longer than you" nonsense on BITOG.
smiley-rolleyes008.gif


With that being said, most of the members on BITOG are very helpful and I'm thankful to have a place to come and ask questions and get help or lend my input and possibly help others.
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Originally Posted By: doitmyself

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Ah, yes Ive seen that before on here, great chart!

However, from what I've picked up recently, it seems to matter less what viscosity an ATF starts out with and matter more how well said viscosity holds up.

For example, Dexron III has a higher viscosity, but breaks down (shears) more causing it to be less viscous. Whereas Dexron VI starts at a lower starting viscosity, but shears far less, thus better maintaining its initial viscosity better.

So after only a short time, Dex III will have the same if not worse(less) viscosity than Dex VI has as its starting point.

I believe this point was already brought up earlier in this thread, I'm simply reiterating.
 
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