Viscosity: Engine protection Vs. enhanced mileage

[Sunshine Guy]

My 2022 Lexus ES350 calls for 0w – 20 oil in the 3.5L V6. The manual does say that if 0w – 20 is not available, 5w-20 may be substituted, but it must be replaced with 0w-20 “at the next regular oil change.”

To protect my remaining warranty I continue using Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0w-20, but I wince every time I pour that watery-looking stuff into the engine.

It is my gut feeling that 0-20w oil is specified solely on the basis of delivering optimum fuel mileage, and that 5-20w (or even perhaps 5w-30 in a warm climate) would likely provide better engine protection and longer service life under "normal," commuter car use.

I live in North Florida; the engine “might” see a cold start near freezing temperature 2 or 3 days a year. Long summers are HOT. I buy my cars new and keep them for a very long time so optimizing service life is paramount to me. I change oil/filter at 4000 mile intervals and am a very conservative driver.

While these are the usage parameters for my particular vehicle, but I suspect my general question applies to many late model vehicles with very lightweight oil recommendations.

Since my gut feelings are worth about as much as a noisy stomach growl, does the empirical evidence suggest compromises have been made in engine protection in favor of boosting fuel efficiency?

 

[BISCUT]

Your engine can't differentiate between the 0 and the 5. If your oil of choice meets the spec in your manual, you are good to go. If that were my 3.5, it would be seeing 5-30, but that's just me. I'm not a must-use thicker oil person, but if the engine allows, I would. That's the best way to explain it.

 

[Jetronic]

Since my gut feelings are worth about as much as a noisy stomach growl, does the empirical evidence suggest compromises have been made in engine protection in favor of boosting fuel efficiency?

Yes, the empirical evidence does suggest that. What it doesn't suggest is that the difference matters for the first few 100k miles.

 

[pbm]

In North Florida you wouldn't hurt a thing using 5w20 or 5w30 IMO. Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5w30 is on the 'thin' side for the grade (just above a 20w) so I'd probably go that route if I decided on using a 5w30.

It won't be long until you start hearing..."use the search feature"...."this question has been asked a million times before" etc...

I do believe that 5w30 is allowed in that engine in other countries:

 

[RDY4WAR]

The OEM "requires" 0W-20 only on the basis of CAFE. A 5W-20 or 10W-20 would be fine. A 0W-30, 5W-30, or 10W-30 would also be fine.

In regards to common API oils, it's possible the 0W-20 is actually the better quality lubricant in both hot and cold conditions. The wider spread forces the major brands, who are all in a race to the bottom, to use better quality base oils and VII to meet the spec. I would consider many API SP/SQ 0W-20 oils to be at least comparable to their 5W-20 counterparts of the same brand/series. The same does not apply to boutique brands where performance isn't secondary to profit margins.

If it was mine with the same objective, I'd be using HPL PCMO 10W-20. I live in central SC with similar heat, and that's the oil I use in all of my vehicles except for my Tahoe (which gets HPL PCMO 5W-30). All are on 15k mile intervals.

 

[TomYoung]

Just because it is hot outside does not mean that your engine, if running properly, is running any hotter. The OP posits that there is some point where a tradeoff occurs between 0W20 and 5W20... some place where you forgo longevity to get better gas mileage. There are very few places, if any, in these United States where there would be a difference in ease of starting between these two grades of oil.

Oil failure, or engine degradation due to thin oil is very unlikely to take a car off the road. Very few cars, for whatever reason, see more than 250,000 miles and low, low single digit percentages make it to 300,000.

Feeling uneasy when pouring "watery" oil into a sump is meaningless.

If you are really trying to max out a car's life, few can argue with these:

1. Keep your car meticulously. Fix anything that is broken, or that you think might break. Inspect weekly, monthly. Keep the car clean, washed and waxed, or ceramiced, whatever, just keep it good.
2. Change your oil more frequently than the manufacturer suggests, and consider an OCI of between 4 and 5K. Use the oil weight and spec recommended by the manufacturer, and use a decent brand like, minimally, Kirkland or QS. These oils are reasonably priced and though I mention them as minimal standards, point out that they are both uniformly excellent. Keep all the other fluids topped up and replaced at regular intervals.
3. Don't ski past the tips... call a mechanic when you need to.

It actually looks like the OP is already doing this, so it's all good. Lastly, there was no need to sleight PUP 0W20, which is my go-to, when it is priced okay.

 

[userfriendly]

Mobil FS 0W40 makes more sense to me.
The furthest I’ve driven on 0W20 is home from the dealership.

 

[oil pan 4]

My 2022 Lexus ES350 calls for 0w – 20 oil in the 3.5L V6. The manual does say that if 0w – 20 is not available, 5w-20 may be substituted, but it must be replaced with 0w-20 “at the next regular oil change.”

To protect my remaining warranty I continue using Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0w-20, but I wince every time I pour that watery-looking stuff into the engine.

It is my gut feeling that 0-20w oil is specified solely on the basis of delivering optimum fuel mileage, and that 5-20w (or even perhaps 5w-30 in a warm climate) would likely provide better engine protection and longer service life under "normal," commuter car use.

I live in North Florida; the engine “might” see a cold start near freezing temperature 2 or 3 days a year. Long summers are HOT. I buy my cars new and keep them for a very long time so optimizing service life is paramount to me. I change oil/filter at 4000 mile intervals and am a very conservative driver.

While these are the usage parameters for my particular vehicle, but I suspect my general question applies to many late model vehicles with very lightweight oil recommendations.

Since my gut feelings are worth about as much as a noisy stomach growl, does the empirical evidence suggest compromises have been made in engine protection in favor of boosting fuel efficiency?

10cSt at operating temperature.

 

[JRay’07]

How aggressively do you drive your Lexus? Many members here have mentioned that 0w-20 may contain higher quality base stocks compared to their 5w counterparts.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

My 2022 Lexus ES350 calls for 0w – 20 oil in the 3.5L V6. The manual does say that if 0w – 20 is not available, 5w-20 may be substituted, but it must be replaced with 0w-20 “at the next regular oil change.”

To protect my remaining warranty I continue using Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0w-20, but I wince every time I pour that watery-looking stuff into the engine.

It is my gut feeling that 0-20w oil is specified solely on the basis of delivering optimum fuel mileage, and that 5-20w (or even perhaps 5w-30 in a warm climate) would likely provide better engine protection and longer service life under "normal," commuter car use.

I live in North Florida; the engine “might” see a cold start near freezing temperature 2 or 3 days a year. Long summers are HOT. I buy my cars new and keep them for a very long time so optimizing service life is paramount to me. I change oil/filter at 4000 mile intervals and am a very conservative driver.

While these are the usage parameters for my particular vehicle, but I suspect my general question applies to many late model vehicles with very lightweight oil recommendations.

Since my gut feelings are worth about as much as a noisy stomach growl, does the empirical evidence suggest compromises have been made in engine protection in favor of boosting fuel efficiency?

There is no operational difference between 0w20 and 5w20 above -30*C. As a matter of fact, the 0w20 may actually be thicker than a 5w20 at any temp above -30*C.

 

[circuitsmith]

To protect my remaining warranty I continue using Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0w-20

I have never, on this or any other forum, seen someone post that their warranty was denied due to oil viscosity.
My 2024 Tucson calls for 0w20, but I use 5w30 with no worries.

 

[dnewton3]

Yet another thick vs thin thread ...


OP - in your case, the 2GR-FKS won't care if you run 0w-20 or 5w-30; it's not sensitive to minor changes in viscosity. It is certainly true that in some applications, in some engines, viscosity does matter. But your engine isn't one of those to be concerned about. And it does not matter that you're in FL. The engine temps are controlled by the t-stat, and the oil cooler keeps lube temps in a reasonable range as well. The engine is not turbo-charged, nor does it see extreme rpms, where bearing loads are maximized, nor does it have a propensity to run hot. I have hundreds of UOAs on the 2GR-FE/2GR-FKS engine series and I can say with absolute certainty it won't matter in terms of wear control. As long as you use a good quality oil, with a decent DI package, that engine will last a LONG time.

 

[RDY4WAR]

On the point of operating temperature relative to ambient temperature, I've never seen a significant correlation. In my Tahoe, with an 80°F swing in ambient temperature (20°F -> 100°F), the difference in operating temperature was just 7°F (208°F -> 215°F). This is while towing ~6,000 lbs on the highway at 2200-2400 rpm. The oil simply doesn't care that much when it's surrounded by 200°F coolant, passing through 275°F bearings, and splashing on 450°F cylinder walls. The only significant difference is how long it took to get to operating temp. Comparing say 80°F to 100°F ambient is a wash.

I do not agree with the point about changing the oil more frequently than OEM recommendations. The lowest wear rates are consistently seen when an oil is used to its max service life. (first condemnation point) There's negative reactions that occur with fresh oil in the first couple of heat cycles such as evaporation of light ends (tied to volatility) and chemical stripping of anti-wear films by fresh detergents. (see SAE Technical Paper 2007-01-4133) Thus, too frequent of changes can just put the engine through these cycles more frequently for no benefit.

The only scenario I've seen where a warranty claim was denied due to oil was actually a cluster of claim denials that all were later overturned. It involved several Gen 3 Ecodiesels which spec an MS-12991 oil (similar to ACEA A3/B4) with Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40 as the OEM fill. Owners coming to the Dodge dealerships for oil changes were getting Rotella T6 5W-40 because the techs weren't paying attention to the spec. The result was a slew of trashed bearings. Since the incorrect oil was in the sump, Dodge was denying claims. They overturned these when it became clear it was the dealerships installing the wrong oil, not the fault of the owners.

 

[factorytuned2012]

My 2022 Lexus ES350 calls for 0w – 20 oil in the 3.5L V6. The manual does say that if 0w – 20 is not available, 5w-20 may be substituted, but it must be replaced with 0w-20 “at the next regular oil change.”

To protect my remaining warranty I continue using Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0w-20, but I wince every time I pour that watery-looking stuff into the engine.

It is my gut feeling that 0-20w oil is specified solely on the basis of delivering optimum fuel mileage, and that 5-20w (or even perhaps 5w-30 in a warm climate) would likely provide better engine protection and longer service life under "normal," commuter car use.

I live in North Florida; the engine “might” see a cold start near freezing temperature 2 or 3 days a year. Long summers are HOT. I buy my cars new and keep them for a very long time so optimizing service life is paramount to me. I change oil/filter at 4000 mile intervals and am a very conservative driver.

While these are the usage parameters for my particular vehicle, but I suspect my general question applies to many late model vehicles with very lightweight oil recommendations.

Since my gut feelings are worth about as much as a noisy stomach growl, does the empirical evidence suggest compromises have been made in engine protection in favor of boosting fuel efficiency?

this is an old topic i have seen here in the past. virtually no difference in a 0 and 5W unless you're starting your vehicle at the Vostok Station in Russia.

 

[dubber09]

Imho, if you do wanna suck with 0w-20 oil, may as well use Mobil 1 ESP oil, they make it in that viscosity and it's an excellent oil.

 

[userfriendly]

this is an old topic i have seen here in the past. virtually no difference in a 0 and 5W unless you're starting your vehicle at the Vostok Station in Russia.

Putting 0W40 in a 0w20 engine never gets old.
Ask anyone that owns a 6.2L GM.

 

[Hohn]

Your engine can't differentiate between the 0 and the 5. If your oil of choice meets the spec in your manual, you are good to go. If that were my 3.5, it would be seeing 5-30, but that's just me. I'm not a must-use thicker oil person, but if the engine allows, I would. That's the best way to explain it.

That difference is too small to amount to anything you care about until the temperatures get a LOT colder. And even then the difference is small. @BISCUT is exactly right.

I'd also personally run the 5w30.

 

[Hohn]

Since my gut feelings are worth about as much as a noisy stomach growl, does the empirical evidence suggest compromises have been made in engine protection in favor of boosting fuel efficiency?

Absolutely compromises have been made in favor of engine efficiency.

But it's possible that a 20 grade oil is still perfectly sufficient.


The 0w-30 is pretty close to a universal viscosity. Something like M1 ESP is in that grade is really darn close to a truly all-weather oil for those who get both cold winters and hot summers and want go across seasons on an single oil change.

 

[KGMtech]

Nobody bothered to welcome this new BITOG member? He makes 1 post and gets 17+ responses that showcase the root of overanalysis that defines the norm at BITOG. There needs to be a Making Popcorn Icon for newbies that can troll as well as this guy.

 

[Carlostrece]

My 2022 Lexus ES350 calls for 0w – 20 oil in the 3.5L V6. The manual does say that if 0w – 20 is not available, 5w-20 may be substituted, but it must be replaced with 0w-20 “at the next regular oil change.”

To protect my remaining warranty I continue using Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0w-20, but I wince every time I pour that watery-looking stuff into the engine.

It is my gut feeling that 0-20w oil is specified solely on the basis of delivering optimum fuel mileage, and that 5-20w (or even perhaps 5w-30 in a warm climate) would likely provide better engine protection and longer service life under "normal," commuter car use.

I live in North Florida; the engine “might” see a cold start near freezing temperature 2 or 3 days a year. Long summers are HOT. I buy my cars new and keep them for a very long time so optimizing service life is paramount to me. I change oil/filter at 4000 mile intervals and am a very conservative driver.

While these are the usage parameters for my particular vehicle, but I suspect my general question applies to many late model vehicles with very lightweight oil recommendations.

Since my gut feelings are worth about as much as a noisy stomach growl, does the empirical evidence suggest compromises have been made in engine protection in favor of boosting fuel efficiency?

Welcome to the forum!

Short & Simple Answer: I recommend Quaker State Ultimate Protection Full Synthetic 0w20 because it's the thickest 0w20 that I know of. It's good oil that's available and affordable at Walmart. It's much thicker than Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0w20.

Detailed Answer:
Some brands/models of oil are thinner or thicker for given grade than others.

Pennzoil Ultra Platinum (PUP) is the thinnest oil per grade that I know of. Mobil 1 (M1) oils are not as thin as PUP, but M1 is thinner than most. I used PUP & M1 in the past. I stopped using them because they're thin and that gave me lower oil pressure than I get from other brands like Valvoline.

Valvoline oils are thicker per grade than most other brands. I'm currently using Valvoline.

Quaker State Ultimate Protection Full Synthetic (QSUPFS) is the thickest oil per grade that I know of (for American synthetic oil). I intend to switch to QSUPFS in future.

If you must use a 0w20 for warranty, then I recommend QSUPFS 0w20 because it's thick for 0w20 and is good oil that's affordable at Walmart.

If you're allowed to step up to a thicker grade oil, then I recommend QSUPFS 5w20 or PUP 5w30. i.e. - a good thick 5w20 or good thin 5w30.