Viscosity and hours between oil changes in small air cooled engines.

[z71bill]

Just stick with a full synthetic in your manufactures recommended visc and that thing will out live you.

I am 63 and have only had to use it 1 time in 3 years - so I agree -

 

[Fordiesel69]

I have spent a fair amount of time researching oil - trying to pick one for my air cooled Honda EG2800i generator. It will likely be used for a few days straight when outside temps are in the 90-98 degree range. (Houston area hurricane driven power outage)

On one hand I think - use a 5W30 full synthetic and change it at least every day or even every 15 - 20 hours.

On the other hand I think, use something like 10W40 / 15W40 - to provide better protection in the extreme heat.

My research leads me to the conclusion that higher viscosity oils like 15W40 are recommended by many because using 10W30 oils have resulted in oil related engine failures -

But is that because they used a 10W30 conventional oil and ran the generator hard for 4 or 5 days straight without an oil change when it was 95 degrees outside?

With a 15W40 they can run for a few days on the same oil and still avoid oil related engine problems - so they choose the higher viscosity oil.

Is a better choice to just change the oil more often?

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If I start with the idea I will be changing the oil at least every day say 15-20 hours between oil changes -

Is a 5W30 synthetic a better choice over a 10W40 or 15W40 conventional oil or maybe even better than a 15W40 / 5W40 synthetic?

My theory is the 5W30 synthetic will provide a good oil film for at least a day - and since it is a lighter oil the engine will run cooler and maybe even have better fuel economy. Where a higher viscosity oil will cause the engine to work a little harder - making it run hotter and burn more fuel.

I totally understand why a heavier oil is required if you are going to go 150-200 hours between oil changes - the lighter oil will break down and stop providing the protection needed and it will result in a reduced engine life or total engine failure.

But does that change if you do at least daily oil changes?


It takes me 5 minutes to change the oil in my Honda EG2800i - I do it while refueling - the ~~16 ounces of oil costs less than $2 so I don't care about cost.

Maybe if I was running a commercial operation and I had a dozen air cooled engines running every day - a longer between oil changes system would be better - but that is not what I am doing.

So if 15-20 run hours between changes is the standard - which oil do you pick to keep your generator running for 4 days straight in 95 degree heat?

Looking at photos of that engine it appears to be the tried and true rubber band 160 or 190 engine. These use a dipper and rely on the rubber band timing belt to get the oil to the top end. The cylinder is most likely just plain aluminum with low tension rings. If I owned it, id run any of these weights:

5w-40 diesel rated
10w-30 diesel rated
15w-40 diesel rated

Then to add some life to the cylinder and valve guides i'd do a 125:1 mix of echo red armor or good 2 cycle oil. It really helps keep the aluminum cylinder from wearing out under high loads.

Im not sure i'd use anything thicker in there as there is no oil pump and it will take some time to get the top end fully lubricated.

 

[Dennywires]

A stout full synthetic 5w or 10w30 like Mobil 1 or Castrol would do good. The Temps you're talking I'd run a 15w40.

 

[z71bill]

Looking at photos of that engine it appears to be the tried and true rubber band 160 or 190 engine. These use a dipper and rely on the rubber band timing belt to get the oil to the top end. The cylinder is most likely just plain aluminum with low tension rings. If I owned it, id run any of these weights:

5w-40 diesel rated
10w-30 diesel rated
15w-40 diesel rated

Then to add some life to the cylinder and valve guides i'd do a 125:1 mix of echo red armor or good 2 cycle oil. It really helps keep the aluminum cylinder from wearing out under high loads.

Im not sure i'd use anything thicker in there as there is no oil pump and it will take some time to get the top end fully lubricated.

It has the GC190 engine.

It says in the owners manual - never use gasoline mixed with oil. 125:1 is pretty close to no oil - but still gives me a pause.

I have considered the 10W30 diesel rated oil a few times.

The 10W30 diesel oil with a SJ or better rating is not easy to find -

All good info - I have 5W40 and 15W40 diesel oil on hand - but in my change the oil every day system are they really better?

 

[tnt_motorsports]

It has the GC190 engine.

It says in the owners manual - never use gasoline mixed with oil. 125:1 is pretty close to no oil - but still gives me a pause.

I have considered the 10W30 diesel rated oil a few times.

The 10W30 diesel oil with a SJ or better rating is not easy to find -

All good info - I have 5W40 and 15W40 diesel oil on hand - but in my change the oil every day system are they really better?

You could use Rotella T5 10w30. Found at most Walmart or Farm & Fleet stores. F&F also has Mystik 10w30 HDEO.

What’s your concern with an SN rated oil? Most HDEO’s have lost the dual rating because of the additive package primarily zinc content needed for diesel motors.

Just my $0.02

 

[z71bill]

You could use Rotella T5 10w30. Found at most Walmart or Farm & Fleet stores. F&F also has Mystik 10w30 HDEO.

What’s your concern with an SN rated oil? Most HDEO’s have lost the dual rating because of the additive package primarily zinc content needed for diesel motors.

Just my $0.02

The SJ or better rated oil is the spec on all my OPE -

So far when I have purchased 5W40 or 15W40 diesel oil it also carried the SN -

As I dig deeper I discover some of that SN or now SP API tag is to protect catalytic converters - so since my OPE doesn't have those why do I care?

Better question - why doesn't the owners manual of any of my OPE recommend diesel rated oils?

Oh now I recall - at one point back a few years I was trying to keep oil that I could also use in one of my vehicles -

My logic was I may not ever need the 10-15 quarts of oil I have on hand JIC the power goes out for a few weeks - but I can use it in my Tahoe - use up the old / buy new to replace it.

I think that ship sailed when I bought a gallon of 5W40 and 3 gallons of 15W40!

 

[Kawiguy454]

Remember that a non pressureized splasher oil system will shear the oils much faster grinding it up in the bearings. The diesel and heavier non "energy conserving" oils also have a dose of moly that the bearings will love. M1 15-50 last i checked has ~1200ppm moly. the 5w-xx has minimal.

 

[z71bill]

Remember that a non pressureized splasher oil system will shear the oils much faster grinding it up in the bearings. The diesel and heavier non "energy conserving" oils also have a dose of moly that the bearings will love. M1 15-50 last i checked has ~1200ppm moly. the 5w-xx has minimal.

M1 15W50

Kinematic Viscosity @ 100 C, mm2/s, ASTM D445

18

Honda recommends an oil with a viscosity @ 100 C of between 9.3 - 12.5 - do you think going with at 18 - almost 2x the viscosity on the low end is a good idea?

You point is on target - I am concerned about oil shear in hot temps --

One way to handle it is with a heavier weight oil - the other is to change the oil more frequently -

The thread is really trying to figure out which gives a better result - by better I don't mean lower cost of maintenance - but overall less wear on and cooler engine temps with better fuel economy.

I don't think anyone is saying use 15W40 or 15W50 and change it every day.

But am I correct to say you would rather use M1 15W50 and change it every day VS M1 5W30 synthetic and change it every day?


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I guess the opposite question is - if you had to extend the oil change interval from the 25 recommended in the owners manual to 100 hours what oil would you use?

Then I would be saying go with 15W40 or 15W50 --

The daily oil change is the pivot point.

 

[Kawiguy454]

What i am saying is put in something that extends safety margin and doing no harm. You wont have to worry you come up short on viscosity next time the windmills freeze and the lights go out. A genny needs to be as bullitproof as it is an emergency device when primary power fails. Splitting hairs to use a lighter oil with less addpack in a motor that grinds it up hard is to what end? Put in oil designed for heavy duty and sleep well.

 

[ripcord]

The engine in your generator is the same one they put in about a billion lawn mowers and pressure washers, most of which never get a single oil change but manage to run years and years. Contrary to what some might expect, generators spend the vast majority of the time running at a fraction of full power as opposed to most OPE equipment. Unless you're doing something crazy like running a couple of 15k air conditioners constantly, you most likely are not taxing it that hard.

 

[z71bill]

The engine in your generator is the same one they put in about a billion lawn mowers and pressure washers, most of which never get a single oil change but manage to run years and years. Contrary to what some might expect, generators spend the vast majority of the time running at a fraction of full power as opposed to most OPE equipment. Unless you're doing something crazy like running a couple of 15k air conditioners constantly, you most likely are not taxing it that hard.

The inverter generator doesn't seem to run as hard as the conventional model -

I knew a guy that use to buy a new car every 2 years - all he did was fill up with gas -

No oil changes, tire rotations or any maintenance.

He would brag sometimes and say he owned it for 2 years and never opened the hood -

 

[z71bill]

What i am saying is put in something that extends safety margin and doing no harm. You wont have to worry you come up short on viscosity next time the windmills freeze and the lights go out. A genny needs to be as bullitproof as it is an emergency device when primary power fails. Splitting hairs to use a lighter oil with less addpack in a motor that grinds it up hard is to what end? Put in oil designed for heavy duty and sleep well.

I think the idea is to have an adequate oil film between moving parts - thicker is not always better - Why not use 15W60?

The thing is if I had to choose between too thick or too thin I would pick too thick every time - because if I was going to error thicker would be less destructive. But I am still kicking around what the best weight would be.

I have watched over the years as small engine manufacturing companies have gone from recommending SAE 30 to 10W30 and now 5W30 synthetic - and now the Kohler I just bought says #1 chose is 10W50.

More things change the more they stay the same!

 

[BMW Dom]

I’ve been using Supertech syn 10w30 almost this entire year in my small grass cutting business

 

[RazorsEdge]

I think the idea is to have an adequate oil film between moving parts - thicker is not always better - Why not use 15W60?

The thing is if I had to choose between too thick or too thin I would pick too thick every time - because if I was going to error thicker would be less destructive. But I am still kicking around what the best weight would be.

I have watched over the years as small engine manufacturing companies have gone from recommending SAE 30 to 10W30 and now 5W30 synthetic - and now the Kohler I just bought says #1 chose is 10W50.

More things change the more they stay the same!

Meh - I've used 5w30 and now 0w40
No issues with either oils.

Oil level and change it,easy peezy*

 

[z71bill]

I wish they made a 7.5W35.

(Just kidding)

But you have to wonder why Toyota started the 0W16 oil spec - 0W20 was too thick?

 

[z71bill]

Meh - I've used 5w30 and now 0w40
No issues with either oils.

Oil level and change it,easy peezy*

Why did you change viscosity if you had no issue?

 

[z71bill]

I’ve been using Supertech syn 10w30 almost this entire year in my small grass cutting business

I started using SuperTec 15W40 in my Yamaha Virago back in 1993 - Yamaha wanted an arm and a leg for their oil - the mechanic told me he used SuperTec 15W40 so I gave it a try. Everything I see about SuperTec has been positive.

I wish I could find some detailed specs on SuperTec, PQAI has a few but it sure seems like they should have a web site like Mobile & other oil companies do that provided some details.

 

[RazorsEdge]

Why did you change viscosity if you had no issue?

I got a good deal on the Amsoil

 

[Fordiesel69]

It has the GC190 engine.

It says in the owners manual - never use gasoline mixed with oil. 125:1 is pretty close to no oil - but still gives me a pause.

I have considered the 10W30 diesel rated oil a few times.

The 10W30 diesel oil with a SJ or better rating is not easy to find -

All good info - I have 5W40 and 15W40 diesel oil on hand - but in my change the oil every day system are they really better?

So the manual will advise against not using oil in the fuel because of emissions and carbon buildup. I would never use mixed gas on an iron cylinder as you are just wasting your time, but there is a very good benefit of providing a slight oil mix if you have a bare aluminum cylinder. Anything like 100:1 up to 125:1. The oil wiper ring does an excellent job of making sure no oil remains on the cylinder surface leaving only the micro film from the crosshatch pattern. In just a few years this pattern goes away (harmless) but now there is not a place for the film of oil. That is where the slight oil mix comes into play. I can tell you that echo red armor will not cause carbon and actually seems to clean in my opinion.

The GC190 is an amazing engine and only low oil level or lack of changes will kill it.

 

[z71bill]

So the manual will advise against not using oil in the fuel because of emissions and carbon buildup. I would never use mixed gas on an iron cylinder as you are just wasting your time, but there is a very good benefit of providing a slight oil mix if you have a bare aluminum cylinder. Anything like 100:1 up to 125:1. The oil wiper ring does an excellent job of making sure no oil remains on the cylinder surface leaving only the micro film from the crosshatch pattern. In just a few years this pattern goes away (harmless) but now there is not a place for the film of oil. That is where the slight oil mix comes into play. I can tell you that echo red armor will not cause carbon and actually seems to clean in my opinion.

The GC190 is an amazing engine and only low oil level or lack of changes will kill it.

G190 starts on first pull if you have the engine switch in the on position!