Virgin FE7317 cut open w/light to bypass seal area.

[Glenda W.]

Ronn, please read more, post less. Everything your posting has been discussed in the oil filter section for over a year. Avoid the dead horse and use the search feature.

Amsoil, Endurance, Royal Purple=same filter. All made by Champ Labs….old news

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/new-fram-endurance-oil-filter-same-as-amsoil.370530/

 

[Ronn]

Ronn, please read more, post less. Everything your posting has been discussed in the oil filter section for over a year. Avoid the dead horse and use the search feature.

Amsoil, Endurance, Royal Purple=same filter. All made by Champ Labs….old news

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/new-fram-endurance-oil-filter-same-as-amsoil.370530/

Not old news!!! This thread is a week old and regurgitates the same BS.
It again questions capabilities of these filters based on a flashlight test.
We see an Amsoil filter “failing” this test, yet apparently supported by ISO.
Yet...People on this thread criticize essentially the same filter, aka Endurance, for not being supported by ISO??
Let’s cut to the chase ok?
Does a flashlight test, that THIS THREAD IS ALL ABOUT, negate ISO approval as evidenced in Amsoil filters?
Yes or No???

 

[ZeeOSix]

Does a flashlight test, that THIS THREAD IS ALL ABOUT, negate ISO approval as evidenced in Amsoil filters?
Yes or No???

Depends if the filters actually used in the ISO efficiency testing had a gap or not. Nobody here will ever know for sure. As already mentioned, the filters that were tested would have to be cut open and inspected to verify if any gap(s) causing dirty oil leakage had an effect on the efficiency. It could only be correlated with that kind of testing.

 

[Ronn]

Depends if the filters actually used in the ISO efficiency testing had a gap or not. Nobody here will ever know for sure. As already mentioned, the filters that were tested would have to be cut open and inspected to verify if any gap(s) causing dirty oil leakage had an effect on the efficiency. It could only be correlated with that kind of testing.

Lets get real..OK? ALL these filters have the same BYPASS design.....and all randomly selected so far have shown gaps. It's inherent in the design. Good lord....wake up! SO, the question remains....does this materially impact superior filtration? Evidently not...unless you choose to believe ISO selected examples of perfectly sealed Bypass valves. ...BTW.......which apparently don't exist.
Denial is a powerful elixir...so we carry on ad nauseum.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Lets get real..OK? ALL these filters have the same BYPASS design.....and all randomly selected so far have shown gaps. It's inherent in the design. Good lord....wake up! SO, the question remains....does this materially impact superior filtration? Evidently not...unless you choose to believe ISO selected examples of perfectly sealed Bypass valves. ...BTW.......which apparently don't exist.
Denial is a powerful elixir...so we carry on ad nauseum.

You've got a couple of examples. That doesn't automatically mean every filter made with that design has the same gap. That's the real logic and reality. Until you can prove that every one of them does, or at least xx% of a very large sample does, it all just speculation based on a super small sample - not a very scientific approach. If everything was decided on a couple of examples, there would be a lot of speculation involved to come to the premature conclusion. You sure are wound-up over this stuff, lol.

 

[Ronn]

Sorry
But this isn’t worthy of any further response. Again, we have a few flashlight test vs manufactures claims backed by ISO and independent tests.
The burden of proof is obvious…. chose a filter you’re comfortable with. If a flashlight works for you , go for it!

 

[hrv]

Sorry
But this isn’t worthy of any further response. Again, we have a few flashlight test vs manufactures claims backed by ISO and independent tests.
The burden of proof is obvious…. chose a filter you’re comfortable with. If a flashlight works for you , go for it!

Me too. I would have installed that filter already and move on...

 

[Sayjac]

..... I’ll use more logic here because Champ Labs is building the Endurance for Fram.

That's an excellent point. The oil bypass areas seen in all the filters are made by the Champ Labs division of FB, not Fram. And now with your recent OG Titanium c&p, the differences in seal area vs the topic FE, easily seen.

And cherry picking one yt comment saying the FE will still 'filter more oil than it doesn't;', so good to go? No need for any further ISO 4548-12 testing, as long it "filters more oil than it doesn't." Using that logic, then toss out the media tears too because 'it's still filtering more oil than it doesn't.'

 

[Glenda W.]

That's an excellent point. The oil bypass areas seen in all the filters are made by the Champ Labs division of FB, not Fram. And now with your recent OG Titanium c&p, the differences in seal area vs the topic FE, easily seen.

And cherry picking one yt comment saying the FE will filter more oil than it doesn't, so good to go? No need for any further ISO 4548-12 testing, "as long it filters more oil than it doesn't." Using that logic, then toss out the media tears too because 'it's still filtering more oil than it doesn't.'

I agree. Seems to be a Champ issue.

As much as I love Whip City “filtering more oil than not” is not a confidence inspiring trait in a filter. He’s normally very good at just stating what he observes and nothing else.

 

[Sayjac]

I agree. Seems to be a Champ issue.

As much as I love Whip City “filtering more oil than not” is not a confidence inspiring trait in a filter. He’s normally very good at just stating what he observes and nothing else.

I didn't investigate, but understanding based on the reference given in this thread, it was a comment by one of the viewers of the video, not WCW. Hard for me to believe he would think that.

 

[Glenda W.]

Does anyone know how often a company has to perform the ISO test to advertise the results? One time, yearly etc.

 

[cptbarkey]

Pics are what I found with topic filter exactly as it was removed from the can. Other than placing element on a surface, bypass piece was untouched. Basically, I found the same as WCW with same filter application. Also, same result found on my last c&p of MP7317. Later I tried to add some pressure but didn't change result. Unlike a coil compression spring, stamped spring only has just enough pressure to hold element secure. 'For me' now seen enough of the same results to say if I was interested, I will not be purchasing an Endurance. 'In my observation', the seal area design is flawed allowing some oil bypass. Imo, one thing to get it on a lower tier Super Tech filter, another on a "premium" filter like FE. That said, should go without saying, others welcome to reach their own conclusion.

Here is the set up used.
View attachment 237441

In the dark. At the top is the filter image, bottom is reflection of the element on counter.
View attachment 237442

Extra pics of the FE element.
View attachment 237446
View attachment 237447

Date code.
View attachment 237450

As point of information, as I don't like wasting filters this only the third time since joining I've c&p an unused filter. Each time it's been to check something out of the ordinary either posted or stated. First many years ago, it was louvers on a Champ Labs Super Tech oil filter. Second, black adbv on Toyota Thai Denso OEM OF confirmed as silicone.

Thanks for the cut open, but I'm on the side of you had zero spring tension sealing the bottom. The black magic flashlight tests are meaningless.

 

[Ronn]

So let me understand this.
We have several brands …Fram… Amsoil ..,Royal Purple…producing literally HUNDREDS of filter models with the same identical bypass. All of which claim to have ISO certification which supports superior filtration….bypass “flaw” and “flashlight test” notwithstanding. Sounds like a conspiracy. Something very “Rotten in Denmark”.

 

[Glenda W.]

So let me understand this.
We have several brands …Fram… Amsoil ..,Royal Purple…producing literally HUNDREDS of filter models with the same identical bypass. All of which claim to have ISO certification which supports superior filtration….bypass “flaw” and “flashlight test” notwithstanding. Sounds like a conspiracy. Something very “Rotten in Denmark”.

As of now we’ve only seen this in the Champ Labs made filters. I’m not sure all the individual Champ models share the same bypass. Some vehicles have a bypass in the block.

Here is a bypass I checked on a Fram Titanium.(Fram made)

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...s7317-c-p-with-bypass-flashlight-test.386754/

 

[Ronn]

I didn't investigate, but understanding based on the reference given in this thread, it was a comment by one of the viewers of the video, not WCW. Hard for me to believe he would think that.

No,
If you scroll through comments you will see that comment was indeed made by the creator himself.

 

[Ronn]

As of now we’ve only seen this in the Champ Labs made filters. I’m not sure all the individual Champ models share the same bypass. Some vehicles have a bypass in the block.

Here is a bypass I checked on a Fram Titanium.(Fram made)

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...s7317-c-p-with-bypass-flashlight-test.386754/

I didn’t say ALL filters were made with the bypass. However, those that do have them are all the same design. There are hundreds of various models between all those companies that have them.

 

[Glenda W.]

I didn’t say ALL filters were made with the bypass. However, those that do have them are all the same design. There are hundreds of various models between all those companies that have them.

Can’t say for sure how widespread this is. Maybe it’s a certain Champ plant producing the defect? Maybe we should start looking at date codes on the ones we find? Maybe cptbarkey is correct? Maybe it’s already been corrected? We just don’t know for sure.

Over the years we’ve found some interesting things in our c&p’s and occasionally the manufacturer wants them back for inspection. We post what we find, take it as you will.

 

[Ronn]

Can’t say for sure how widespread this is. Maybe it’s a certain Champ plant producing the defect? Maybe we should start looking at date codes on the ones we find? Maybe cptbarkey is correct? Maybe it’s already been corrected? We just don’t know for sure.

Over the years we’ve found some interesting things in our c&p’s and occasionally the manufacturer wants them back for inspection. We post what we find, take it as you will.

I think it’s safe to say this bypass design pretty much guarantees some irregularities in the interface between the valve base and plate in virtually ALL instances. Again, I don’t think it’s materially significant to the ultimate filtration capability, as evidenced in ISO and the independent Endurance test.
Basically you have a very small amount of bypass seepage that gets filtered when recirculating.

 

[Glenda W.]

I think it’s safe to say this bypass design pretty much guarantees some irregularities in the interface between the valve base and plate in virtually ALL instances.

Hey we mostly agree on something!!! I’m not a huge fan of the design.

Any c&p’s are appreciated and contribute to the community. Thank you Sayjac for sacrificing a new filter and your time!

 

[Sayjac]

I could have sworn I read a previous comment that this wasn't "worthy of any further comment". Apparently, it is. No interest or intention of scrolling through any of you tube comments, meaningless to me. Anyone with any filter knowledge, which includes 'most' that frequent this board, knows the 'filters more than it doesn't' so ok conclusion, absurd. To quote it as proof of some absolute conclusion., desperate, imo. But I get it, for some when a finding like the one in the OP doesn't fit one's confirmation bias, have to pull out all the extraneous stops in an attempt to refute it.