Virgin FE7317 cut open w/light to bypass seal area.

[Sayjac]

Pics are what I found with topic filter exactly as it was removed from the can. Other than placing element on a surface, bypass piece was untouched. Basically, I found the same as WCW with same filter application. Also, same result found on my last c&p of MP7317. Later I tried to add some pressure but didn't change result. Unlike a coil compression spring, stamped spring only has just enough pressure to hold element secure. 'For me' now seen enough of the same results to say if I was interested, I will not be purchasing an Endurance. 'In my observation', the seal area design is flawed allowing some oil bypass. Imo, one thing to get it on a lower tier Super Tech filter, another on a "premium" filter like FE. That said, should go without saying, others welcome to reach their own conclusion.

Here is the set up used.

In the dark. At the top is the filter image, bottom is reflection of the element on counter.

Extra pics of the FE element.

Date code.

As point of information, as I don't like wasting filters this only the third time since joining I've c&p an unused filter. Each time it's been to check something out of the ordinary either posted or stated. First many years ago, it was louvers on a Champ Labs Super Tech oil filter. Second, black adbv on Toyota Thai Denso OEM OF confirmed as silicone.

 

[Joenpb]

It appears that type of design for a bypass valve commonly leaks. I'll pass on those, many of which are expensive synthetic filters. Thanks for the cut & paste!

 

[BrendanC]

and yet, the RP filter in ascent’s test beat everything but an OG ultra….

 

[Sayjac]

and yet, the RP filter in ascent’s test beat everything but an OG ultra….

Clearly you've already reached your conclusion. Ascent testing is 'imo' relatively old now and the RP tested (not topic) may or may not have had the EXACT same seal area design and/or taken into account as that used currently.

Either way, and as clearly noted, everyone welcome to reach their own conclusion. So obviously, you're free to keep using them. Otoh, I won't be.

 

[BrendanC]

Clearly you've already reached your conclusion. Ascent testing is 'imo' relatively old now and the RP (not topic) may or may not have had the EXACT same seal area and/or taken into account as that used currently.

Bottom line and as noted, everyone welcome to reach their own conclusion. So obviously, you're free to keep using them. Otoh, I won't be.

i find it hard to believe that fram/amsoil/RP would continue to put their name on it if it didn’t meet their standards. my OG titanium FS3675’s don’t have a gasket for the leaf spring either. i think this is panic over nothing but again, that is my opinion. not many options out there for 99% @20um filters anymore.

 

[Sayjac]

..... i think this is panic over nothing but again, that is my opinion....

Who's panicking? As I haven't used an FE yet, not me. Yep, it's your opinion, mine happens to differ. Imo, the OG Titanium a strawman and not topic mentioned Champ Labs seal area. But feel free to take a light to the seal area with a c&p. Be interesting to see, at least to me.

 

[Joenpb]

i find it hard to believe that fram/amsoil/RP would continue to put their name on it if it didn’t meet their standards. my OG titanium FS3675’s don’t have a gasket for the leaf spring either. i think this is panic over nothing but again, that is my opinion. not many options out there for 99% @20um filters anymore.

If multiple filters had tears in the media the size of that bypass valve gap, I think most here would say stay away.

Unfortunately corporate bean counters have a lot more say on final products these days than they did 15-20 years ago. Profit not quality is paramount these days. Especially for corporations that buy out other MFGs products. That conclusion is easy to see if you've been in the manufacturing business. More executives lead to more overhead, & decisions lo cut the bottom line to ensure nice bonuses.

Quality has sunk across many product lines.

 

[53' Stude]

Pics are what I found with topic filter exactly as it was removed from the can. Other than placing element on a surface, bypass piece was untouched. Basically, I found the same as WCW with same filter application. Also, same result found on my last c&p of MP7317. Later I tried to add some pressure but didn't change result. Unlike a coil compression spring, stamped spring only has just enough pressure to hold element secure. 'For me' now seen enough of the same results to say if I was interested, I will not be purchasing an Endurance. 'In my observation', the seal area design is flawed allowing some oil bypass. Imo, one thing to get it on a lower tier Super Tech filter, another on a "premium" filter like FE. That said, should go without saying, others welcome to reach their own conclusion.

Here is the set up used.
View attachment 237441

In the dark. At the top is the filter image, bottom is reflection of the element on counter.
View attachment 237442

Extra pics of the FE element.
View attachment 237446
View attachment 237447

Date code.
View attachment 237450

As point of information, as I don't like wasting filters this only the third time since joining I've c&p an unused filter. Each time it's been to check something out of the ordinary either posted or stated. First many years ago, it was louvers on a Champ Labs Super Tech oil filter. Second, black adbv on Toyota Thai Denso OEM OF confirmed as silicone.

Nice work sir. I appreciate it.

 

[Sayjac]

...Unfortunately corporate bean counters have a lot more say on final products these days than they did 15-20 years ago. Profit not quality is paramount these days....

I'm sure there are other examples, but the current Ultra XG vs the OG Ultra would be an excellent case in point.

I would add here, filters with endcap integral bypass would/should not have this specific concern.

 

[Joenpb]

We've seen this issue with other Fram Endurance filters.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/oil-filter-bypass-valve-flashlight-test.385676/

 

[ZeeOSix]

What's the surface of the leaf spring look like that mates up with the end cap circumference around the center tube? If Fram doesn't want to use a fiber seal in that area like they did on the OG Fram, then they need to ensure that the leaf spring is made smooth and flat in at that interface.

 

[ZeeOSix]

my OG titanium FS3675’s don’t have a gasket for the leaf spring either.

Some OG Titaniums used the fiber gasket. Wondering is they phased it out along the way before going with the new media change.

 

[Joenpb]

What's the surface of the leaf spring look like that mates up with the end cap circumference around the center tube? If Fram doesn't want to use a fiber seal in that area like they did on the OG Fram, then they need to ensure that the leaf spring is made smooth and flat in at that interface.

It may be easier or less expensive to use a gasket around the bypass valve. As opposed to machining the leaf spring, although maybe the modified leaf spring could be used for everything.

 

[ZeeOSix]

It may be easier or less expensive to use a gasket around the bypass valve. As opposed to machining the leaf spring, although maybe the modified leaf spring could be used for everything.

They wouldn't have to machine it ... they just need to have a better metal forming process so that area comes out flatter and smoother.

 

[jimmyjamesndt]

Pics are what I found with topic filter exactly as it was removed from the can. Other than placing element on a surface, bypass piece was untouched. Basically, I found the same as WCW with same filter application. Also, same result found on my last c&p of MP7317. Later I tried to add some pressure but didn't change result. Unlike a coil compression spring, stamped spring only has just enough pressure to hold element secure. 'For me' now seen enough of the same results to say if I was interested, I will not be purchasing an Endurance. 'In my observation', the seal area design is flawed allowing some oil bypass. Imo, one thing to get it on a lower tier Super Tech filter, another on a "premium" filter like FE. That said, should go without saying, others welcome to reach their own conclusion.

Here is the set up used.
View attachment 237441

In the dark. At the top is the filter image, bottom is reflection of the element on counter.
View attachment 237442

Extra pics of the FE element.
View attachment 237446
View attachment 237447

Date code.
View attachment 237450

As point of information, as I don't like wasting filters this only the third time since joining I've c&p an unused filter. Each time it's been to check something out of the ordinary either posted or stated. First many years ago, it was louvers on a Champ Labs Super Tech oil filter. Second, black adbv on Toyota Thai Denso OEM OF confirmed as silicone.

That spring sitting on the bench is a totally different load than being installed in the can, the spring sits in the cans bottom radius and most likely distorts and ends up flat and seals at the filter end, the only way you could prove that it's not sealing is with a small viewing window in the side of a new filter and not cut the filter apart.

 

[Sayjac]

What's the surface of the leaf spring look like that mates up with the end cap circumference around the center tube? If Fram doesn't want to use a fiber seal in that area like they did on the OG Fram, then they need to ensure that the leaf spring is made smooth and flat in at that interface.

If you notice how the bypass with the arms to sides left and right, where the light is seen is at the areas 90 degrees from the flat spring arms. Those are the areas with the shortest cut off collar on the bypass piece in the seal area. The arm areas are wider and cover and seat the raised endcap ring much better. That's what I see. More pressure applied makes no difference.

As for the idea posited that once the filter cut is cut open can't replicate the same /very similar pressure on the bypass, initially when WCW did light application, I too was skeptical and thought similar. Now having cut open two of Champ Labs filters with the MP7317 and topic, I don't think so. There's really nothing special about the can surface the flat springs arms rest on in the can. And as noted, unlike coil compression spring where the element about jumps out of the can when cut open, stamped flat spring uses just enough pressure to hold the element in place. When cut open little or no movement noted. Again, others can think differently, but I'm satisfied with pics posted and what it means.

 

[ZeeOSix]

If you notice how the bypass with the arms to sides left and right, where the light is seen is at the areas 90 degrees from the flat spring arms. Those are the areas with the shortest cut off collar on the bypass piece in the seal area. The arm areas are wider and cover and seat the raised endcap ring much better. That's what I see. More pressure applied makes no difference.

I've seen a few filters that use a four legged leaf spring, which would put more even pressure around the center tube. But if more pressure on this one doesn't make any difference on this setup, then the surface area on the leaf spring that mates up to the end cap simply isn't flat enough to start with. Like said above, a manufacturing process improvement in the forming of the metal could improve the fit.

 

[Sayjac]

Here's pics of the bypass spring mating area first, then other side, Also, one of the raised ring on the endcap. Note the rough looking and narrowed areas on the stamped spring, top and bottom. The raised ring on endcap is not much, but if all surfaces fit together smoothly, could work. As it is, I don't think so.

 

[Ronn]

Found this old video on Fram bypass testing. Enjoy!

 

[ZeeOSix]

Here's pics of the bypass spring mating area first, then other side, Also, one of the raised ring on the endcap. Note the rough looking and narrowed areas on the stamped spring, top and bottom. The raised ring on endcap is not much, but if all surfaces fit together smoothly, could work. As it is, I don't think so.

View attachment 237491
View attachment 237492
View attachment 237493

That's a pretty "ratty" design and metal stamping quality. Definitely could use improvement. You reading this Fram?