Virgin FE7317 cut open w/light to bypass seal area.

[Ronn]

I thought about that and the amount of bypass oil still seems high, 1/2 gallon per minute.

Agree. Under normal conditions with the valve closed, there shouldn’t be any significant dp gradient through a tiny space under the valve. At best, it’s “passive leakage”. In fact, I’ll ask those here more knowledgeable >>>>
Could there actually be a NEGATIVE dp pushing fluid back from the slit below the valve? This would result in a small amount of FILTERED oil flowing back under the closed valve.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Agree. Under normal conditions with the valve closed, there shouldn’t be any significant dp gradient through a tiny space under the valve. At best, it’s “passive leakage”. In fact, I’ll ask those here more knowledgeable >>>>
Could there actually be a NEGATIVE dp pushing fluid back from the slit below the valve? This would result in a small amount of FILTERED oil flowing back under the closed valve.

The pressure is higher on the dirty side of the filter, so no way for oil inside the center tube (which wants to flow into the engine) to flow through any gap back to the dirty side.

 

[bullwinkle]

Yet another reason the OG Ultra/Titanium was superior to the new Endurance, Ultra, et. al. First Brands did the Ultra no favors when they took over!

 

[twX]

The filter Ascent tested in the efficiency test wasn't the same exact filter he bubble tested, so the low efficiency seen may have been with a filter that didn't have a leaky bypass valve. Also, I'd think a dirty oil leak path isn't going to make just certain particle sized particle change ... it should change the efficiency across the whole range of particles.

If 10% of the oil is bypassing a filter, the absolute efficiency should drop to 90% of 99%, so down to 89%, or Beta=100 to B=8. It will do the same at the nominal micron size, dropping the efficiency from 50% to 45%, or B=2 to B=1.8. The reduced absolute efficiency will be much more obvious due to the huge drop in beta ratio, and the curve should look like the one for the WIX.

Did the WIX filter they used in the efficiency test pass a bubble test then? Maybe it also had a leaky bypass, but one that only leaked with positive pressure applied to the outside of the filter instead of the inside, or some other defect that only showed up in the efficiency test. I'm not sure what else could explain that efficiency curve.

There's no way the air gap at the bypass to end cap interface it that large. Cut it down to about 20-25% of that would be my estimate because it wasn't a gap all the way around the circumference.

Even a gap only 20% the size would result in around 11% of the total flow being bypassed. I think the gap would need to be much smaller yet for an oil filter to achieve 99% efficiency.

 

[Ronn]

.Even a gap only 20% the size would result in around 11% of the total flow being bypassed. I think the gap would need to be much smaller yet for an oil filter to achieve 99% efficiency.

As mentioned earlier here, all tests “out there “ on various videos are done with filters in tact, so Endurance results stand on their own as one of the best, bypass “gap” notwithstanding.
This issue is starting to look like a nothing burger.

 

[twX]

As mentioned earlier here, all tests “out there “ on various videos are done with filters in tact, so Endurance results stand on their own as one of the best, bypass “gap” notwithstanding.
This issue is starting to look like a nothing burger.

If it's a matter of quality control, some filters will have significant leaks and others won't. You would have to do efficiency tests with a large sample size of the filters to see how many actually leak.

I don't think the gaps we see would be any smaller if the filters were intact. Applying pressure to the leaf spring doesn't seem to reduce the gaps.

 

[Ronn]

We’ll, we haven’t seen any inferior results on the Endurance so far with “RANDOM SAMPLES” of this filter. Here are three test by the same source.

 

[Ronn]

If it's a matter of quality control, some filters will have significant leaks and others won't. You would have to do efficiency tests with a large sample size of the filters to see how many actually leak.

We’ll, that would hold true for ALL filters. So that begs the question….,
Does the ISO benchmark test use a “large sample size”? Just curious.

 

[Joenpb]

I think they follow the same guidelines the CDC used for COVID.

 

[Ronn]

We’ll, that would hold true for ALL filters. So that begs the question….,
Does the ISO benchmark test use a “large sample size”? Just curious.

Ok here ya go.
I found an ISO 4548-12 test comparing Fleetguard and Bosch filters. They sampled 3 filters in the test.

 

[twX]

We’ll, that would hold true for ALL filters. So that begs the question….,
Does the ISO benchmark test use a “large sample size”? Just curious.

There's no requirement in ISO standard to test more than one filter. If a filter is found to be defective in a bubble point test, it's disqualified from testing. The standard isn't meant to be used for quality control and it would be pretty expensive to do so.

 

[Ronn]

Here’s ISO test comparing 3 filters using ONE SAMPLE each. It’s the same test session I referenced above, but for filter efficiency.

 

[Ronn]

I think they follow the same guidelines the CDC used for COVID.

 

[twX]

We’ll, we haven’t seen any inferior results on the Endurance so far with “RANDOM SAMPLES” of this filter. Here are three test by the same source.

2 out of the 20 filters tested by Brand Ranks showed signs of major bypassing, the Fram Extraguard and the Toyota filter, both of which use leaf spring bypasses (though the leaf spring seals to a fiber end cap or to resin on these filters).

Maybe this is a coincidence, or maybe the bypass valves were leaky on these filters.

 

[Ronn]

There's no requirement in ISO standard to test more than one filter. If a filter is found to be defective in a bubble point test, it's disqualified from testing. The standard isn't meant to be used for quality control and it would be pretty expensive to do so.

I understand… but no one has established that there’s a quality control issue that’s MATERIALLY related to performance.
Apparently MOST, if not ALL, Endurance filters have “ micro size” partial gaps between the valve and plate. Random sampling using a “flashlight test” (as evidenced by OP of thread) seems to confirm this. However, there is ZERO evidence this impacts performance in a meaningful way. The few random independent tests all indicate superior performance and NONE show degradation.
This entire argument is being “propped up” by a flaw in the language Fram has decided to use by bootstrapping the ISO certification for Endurance to ISO results of other prior “EQUIVALENT” models using equal or lesser medias. Sounds ok, but it leaves Endurance results open to criticism, albeit a RED HERRING as far as I’m concerned .

 

[Ronn]

2 out of the 20 filters tested by Brand Ranks showed signs of major bypassing, the Fram Extraguard and the Toyota filter, both of which use leaf spring bypasses

See next post

 

[Ronn]

Agree that leaf spring bypass is inferior to other designs located at the top. Having said that the same tester found this stark comparison between Extra Guard and Endurance. Not beat a dead horse >>>

 

[ZeeOSix]

Agree that leaf spring bypass is inferior to other designs located at the top. Having said that the same tester found this stark comparison between Extra Guard and Endurance. Not beat a dead horse >>>

View attachment 237939

The EG and TG have fiber end caps, so there won't be any gap there to leak dirty oil. That's one advantage of fiber end caps, they act like a sealing gasket for the leaf spring. So the less efficiency "ranking" isn't due to that. You sure are "locked-on" to that BR testing, lol.

 

[Ronn]

. You sure are "locked-on" to that BR testing, lol.

It’s all we have. I’m open to ANY testing of the Endurance filter that shows inferior performance and/or degradation due to flaws in by pass function. BRING IT ON! So far all we have is a FLASHLIGHT test and rampant speculation.

 

[ZeeOSix]

It’s all we have. I’m open to ANY testing of the Endurance filter that shows inferior performance and/or degradation due to flaws in by pass function. BRING IT ON! So far all we have is a FLASHLIGHT test and rampant speculation.

The BR testing isn't official, might not even be ranking them accurately without official ISO tests to verify. Send one out to an ISO test lab with $2000 and you'll get an answer.