Video about Fram end caps

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Wouldn't the ISO test protocols have regulations about the particle size? And wouldn't they be in hot water if they were advertising that standard and not actually meeting it?

Personally I'm over my Fram phobia. I still don't like the EG but then I don't like the lower tier offerings from other companies that seem to skimp on media either.

I didn't see any issues with the TG that I opened up after use on the G6 and will use it again with out worry. IMHO it's the same issue with the E-core phobia, the ones with less media still scare me but the ACD that I opened up last year looked fine to me.
 
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim


I get what they WANT me to think it means but what does it 'really'?

That's all I want to know.
grin2.gif



According to a fellow who posted on here recently, who claimed to work for Fram's marketing, it really means 20 microns. But to avoid senseless litigation or needlessly wrangle with competitors they use the >20.

Makes sense and the guy seemed legit.
 
That said, I happened to remove a Fram with 5k on it from my wifes Venture this morning. I was able to turn the filter upside and down and maintain a steady but small stream, not drops, stream of oil running into the drain pan continuously for at least 3 minutes before it started to come in drops.

ADBV failure again from the OCOD, really my only beef with them.
 
Originally Posted By: KCJeep


ADBV failure again...


Maybe I don't fully understand ADBVs. What would keep the oil in the filter from passing thru the filter element and running out?
 
Yeah, "some" oil with always pass through the center-tube on a spin on once off the vehicle, AFAIK. If you don't have dry start problems, takes a certain feel for that anyway, then the ADBV or 'empty' filter at start up isn't an issue. However, I believe some don't leak out as much as other/as easily. Perhaps that's because of the seal keeping the oil in the media instead of escaping via the center-tube? Not sure of the correlation of the ADBV/centertube once off of the vehicle.

idk about what happened to KCJeep, but I don't take anyone's word at face value regarding interpretation alone. I think it's possible to be their efficiency ratings(w/e they are depending on filter etc) to be at 20 micron while stating >20 micron.
 
What Motorking actually said on the recent Ultra Guard thread was. "The >20 microns in the disclaimer? Blame it on the Ultra competitiveness of the filter industry and company lawyers. We run ISO 4548-12 tests using particle sizes in 10-20 micron range for all claims. Then print the disclaimer so no other company can dispute the claims. A major competitor of ours is now basing it's disclaimer on >25 microns and I know for a fact they run 4548-12 using 20 micron particles.

That statement is not accurate as regards the new Purolator Synthetic Filter, Purolator says 99% efficient @ 25um, not > 25um at stated above. Curious that Purolator (including P1 and Classic) doesn't feel the need to follow the > __um for any of its filter efficiency specs because of " the Ultra competitiveness of the filter industry and company lawyers." (Nice touch capitalizing the word ultra.) Same for Wix, and same for the recent Amsoil ISO 4548-12 oem filter test which is also done @ 20um, not > 20um.

It seems though that now two of the Purolator 'made for' commercial accounts oil filters have caught on to Fram's > 20um method. Group7 and ProMotive , rate all their filters at ~94% > 20um . And, many of these have been consolidated and downsized. Clicking on any application will show the efficiency graph with the > 20 micron level. Do I believe that the Puro 'made for" G7 or PM is as or more efficient than any of the Puro's own Classics including the four smallest? I don't.
 
Originally Posted By: chainblu
Originally Posted By: KCJeep


ADBV failure again...


Maybe I don't fully understand ADBVs. What would keep the oil in the filter from passing thru the filter element and running out?


Oil will always gush out the center tube, but that usually takes a few seconds. For oil to continued to stream out of the filter for several minutes indicates to me the ADBV is not sealing and it's allowing the remaining oil in the filter to drain out. It shouldn't.

No start up problems on that vehicle the filter points mostly downward, and like I posted before I've never had a real "problem" with a Fram, ever. But I don't think their ADBV's are very good, and I thought that before I pulled the one off today. I just don't believe the ADBV seals very well against the "engineered media" end cap very well over time of use.

Agree with the other comments also, I will still use a Fram without much concern I will NOT use an e-core under any circumstances.
 
Originally Posted By: chainblu
Originally Posted By: KCJeep


ADBV failure again...


Maybe I don't fully understand ADBVs. What would keep the oil in the filter from passing thru the filter element and running out?


The media, and surface tension. See the ADBV test on a PureOne in this link.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...807#Post2042807
 
Today I offered to help a friend with an oil change. I volunteered to craw under the car to do the drain since I was already dirty from another project (riding lawn mower).

As I removed the filter, I thought about KCJeep's filter and ADBV and held it over the pan. Once the initial run-out was done, the filter stopped draining completely. However, I noticed when I held the filter at an angle, oil would run out of it again. But, when turned fully sideways, oil flow would stop again. The filter was a Fram 4967.

Again, I don't know enough (about ADBVs) to know if this is normal, but I am intrigued now. Tomorrow my friend wants to change the oil in his wife's car. He doesn't remember what filter is on it, but doesn't think it's a Fram. Stay tuned!
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: chainblu
Originally Posted By: KCJeep


ADBV failure again...


Maybe I don't fully understand ADBVs. What would keep the oil in the filter from passing thru the filter element and running out?


The media, and surface tension. See the ADBV test on a PureOne in this link.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...807#Post2042807


Wow, thanks for the reminder. I'd forgotten all about your experiment.
thumbsup2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Hah hah we are all diseased! I will stay tuned.


Ok, I finally get a chance to post what I found out.
Saturday my friend decided to change the oil in two more of his vehicles, then his neighbor came up with his Nissan and wanted to change the oil in that.
What he had was a ProMotive filter made by Purolator and an STP E-Core. The Nissan had a Walmart TLE Pro Fram 7317.

What did I find out? Not much. All of them acted the same way. No oil came out when the filter was vertical or horizontal. Once the filter was tilted, oil appeared to run out of the inlet ports of all of them. Being that they all did this, I have to guess that it's normal and does not reflect a ADBV failure. In fact I have to assume that all four of the ADBVs were performing as expected.
 
I sold my 2002 F150 at 240k+ miles and it still ran great at the end but was low a quart just prior to the oil change. I had it since day 1. During all that time it was run with Fram/Walmart filters and the cheapest oil I could find. OCI was typically at 5k and the longest was about 8k.

At the time I was ignorant of "quality" filters and oils listed herein.

Ignorance was bliss.
 
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Honda filters are from Honeywell (FRAM) with fiber end caps. Honda recommends the filter be changed every other oil change (15k miles), so they believe fiber end caps will perform fine. The filter I have cut open after 7500 looks to be in perfect condition. I don't see any problem with the end cap be fiber, it reinforced by adhesive needs to seal and hold the pleat separation. The center tube is what provides the structure.

I have been also using P1 filters due to availability, low price and belief they had better filtration, but I may reconsider this given the PL14610 actually states 40 micron rating.

My other filter application using the PL10241, which I have found to have uneven pleat spacing and buckling near the media seam. My big concern is several have had an issue with the media nearly torn where the buckled pleat meets the end cap glue. The buckling on this model may be from pressing those metal end caps to the center tube. Again questioning the Puralotor brand.

I plan to continue to cut these open to monitor them, wish I had a slick cutter.
 
Slim,
I am the technical manager at FRAM. I would like to cordially invite you, EricF, Ultrafine and Sayjac to come and visit the FRAM engineering lab this september. We will pay for all your travel expenses. The trip is sept 12-13th. The agenda is simple, meet with the president, chief engineer and marketing director (and myself) for dinner the night of the 12th. The 13th will consist of filter training, discussing of all the myths and mystery of oil filters that get discussed here daily and then take a long tour of our engineering labs to see and put your hands on all the various tests we do. If your interested (the other guys mentioned as well) please contact me at [email protected]. The ball is in your court, if you really want to know the FRAM story and how oil filters are tested by us and the engine manufacturers, come on down. This will be pure science and engineering, no chest beating or marketing. we ask nothing of you in return other than becoming more knowledgable about oil filters. There will also be people from the automotive media and repair shop owners in attendence, about 12 guys in all.One on one conversation with the top dogs at FRAM.
So?
 
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