Video about Fram end caps

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
However, what does FRAM state the efficiency rate @ 20 micron is?


The efficiency percentage varies some depending on filter model.

http://fram.com/products/oil_filters/product_list

The Ultra is shown in the flag note as:
FRAM Group testing of average filter efficiency and dirt holding capacity using FRAM XG3387A, XG8A, and XG4967 and their leading economy filter model equivalents under ISO 4548-12 for particles > 20 microns.

All of the filters listed on their website say " ... under ISO 4548-12 for particles > 20 microns."

 

[Stelth]

Originally Posted By: WMSmotorhead
I wonder in general what happens to a car that has been sitting for X years... with a filter full of oil. Does the matereal in the filter eventually fall apart.... like a slow dissolve.



Not in my experience. While cleaning up my yard last year, I found an old Fram filter that had been partially submerged in water for who knows how long. One end of the filter media was water-soaked, and the other end was still oily. I couldn't pull the end caps off of either end.

 

[MBS500]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: MBS500
I sent email with a link to Purolator guys, and asked them to chime in

Let's see what happens.
Purolator states test are done @ 20 micron, Fram guy says @25.

Let the war begin!!!

FYI ... Purolator is saying @ 25 microns on their full synthetic filter (PSL series).

http://www.purolatorautofilters.net/products/oil_filters/Pages/SyntheticOilFilters.aspx

http://www.purolatorautofilters.net/products/oil_filters/Pages/purolatoroilfilters.aspx

For classic it says @20 micron on the bottom of the page

 

[MBS500]

FRAM dude response :"FRAM efficiency is 99% for Ultra and TG, 96% for Extra Guard. All at 10-20 micorns. Purolator uses 25 micron size particles to inflate their efficiency ratings. 10-20 micron particles are most harmful to eninges, not 25! Anyone can be good filter HUGE particles."

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: MBS500
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: MBS500
I sent email with a link to Purolator guys, and asked them to chime in

Let's see what happens.
Purolator states test are done @ 20 micron, Fram guy says @25.

Let the war begin!!!

FYI ... Purolator is saying @ 25 microns on their full synthetic filter (PSL series).

http://www.purolatorautofilters.net/products/oil_filters/Pages/SyntheticOilFilters.aspx

http://www.purolatorautofilters.net/products/oil_filters/Pages/purolatoroilfilters.aspx

For classic it says @20 micron on the bottom of the page


Yes, I know ... I was just pointing out that their new PSL series is not rated as good as the PureOne.

And Purolator doesn't say on their website which ones (only 4 spin-ons) that are rated at 40 microns instead of 20 microns. You have to look at the filter box to see if it's one of the 40 micron rated filters.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: MBS500
FRAM dude response :"FRAM efficiency is 99% for Ultra and TG, 96% for Extra Guard. All at 10-20 micorns. Purolator uses 25 micron size particles to inflate their efficiency ratings. 10-20 micron particles are most harmful to eninges, not 25! Anyone can be good filter HUGE particles."


WT? ... larger particles are less damaging to engines? Hummm, OK ... FRAM dude.

 

[Turk]

 

[tig1]

It's been my 50 years of oil changing that the oil is way, way, way more important than the filter.

 

[WMSmotorhead]

My biggest beef with the Fram EG/TG is the ADBV.. I don't think it seals up all that well with the end cap design. I hear frequent complaints on chatter at start up /w/ those filters much more than with others.

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: MBS500
FRAM dude response :"FRAM efficiency is 99% for Ultra and TG, 96% for Extra Guard. All at 10-20 micorns. Purolator uses 25 micron size particles to inflate their efficiency ratings. 10-20 micron particles are most harmful to eninges, not 25! Anyone can be good filter HUGE particles."


WT? ... larger particles are less damaging to engines? Hummm, OK ... FRAM dude.

Yeah, and their website only claims/publishes it's efficiency ratings at > 20 micron in size particles. Cleaver wording? 97% at 40 micron = > 20 micron still, right?

I vaguely remember this discussion others had on this very point. I can't recall the particulars though.

 

[Sayjac]

Quote:
....Yeah, and their website only claims/publishes it's efficiency ratings at > 20 micron in size particles. Cleaver wording? 97% at 40 micron = > 20 micron still, right?

I vaguely remember this discussion others had on this very point. I can't recall the particulars though.

I raised the point here recently that if Purolator(and/or Wix) rated their filters using the Fram, >__um system rather than the @ __um, then they too could rate all Classics 97.5% > 20um and P1 99.9% > 20um and be accurate and legal. Cleaver wording, I don't know? Something to consider when comparing efficiency ratings, I think so. It does give Fram more leeway to rate all their filters of a type using the same rating, and be legal. The word legal apparently a major consideration to the motorking in a previous post.

As for the new PSL being 99% @ 25um, it's also 99% > 20um too.

 

[N7Quarian]

Let me just say that the only reason that I don't touch FRAM oil filters is due to the end caps. (I can almost see the eyes rolling at me.) However FRAM say that the "Paper" endcaps provide a better seal and are held together by a strong resin or adhesive and are very durable etc. Here is my question. If those "paper" endcaps are so good than whay are FRAM themselves putting METAL endcaps on the "New" TOP OF THE LINE Ultra Filter, why not stick with paper? Are metal endcaps better so they stick them on the "best" filters they sell?
I don't want to start anything because I'm just curious.

 

[KCJeep]

Originally Posted By: tig1
It's been my 50 years of oil changing that the oil is way, way, way more important than the filter.


I agree, as long as your not getting filter related start up racket.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: ltslimjim

Yeah, and their website only claims/publishes it's efficiency ratings at > 20 micron in size particles. Cleaver wording? 97% at 40 micron = > 20 micron still, right?

I vaguely remember this discussion others had on this very point. I can't recall the particulars though.

Yes, but 20.001 microns is also >20 microns. IMO, it basically means @ 20 microns and above, which means it is also filtering out 20 micron particles at that efficiency rate.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: N7Quarian
If those "paper" endcaps are so good than whay are FRAM themselves putting METAL endcaps on the "New" TOP OF THE LINE Ultra Filter, why not stick with paper? Are metal endcaps better so they stick them on the "best" filters they sell?
I don't want to start anything because I'm just curious.


They can't use fiber end caps on the Ultra XG series because of the construction of the media with the 3 layers and wire backing. All of their other filters have a single layer of media which is easy to bond to the fiber end caps.

 

[zerosoma]

fram sucks

 

[4ever4d]

Originally Posted By: zerosoma
fram sucks

Tell us how you really feel,don't hold back now!

 

[WMSmotorhead]

Found
Ruining
Another
Motor

Fails
Repeatedly
Against
Motorcraft

False
Reliability
Amazing
Marketing


I could go on... it's just too easy.

I'll just keep buying Hastings... while Fram makes up all this baloney about "Don't Fail Your Engine".... should be... let our filters fail your engine on your behalf.

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim

Yeah, and their website only claims/publishes it's efficiency ratings at > 20 micron in size particles. Cleaver wording? 97% at 40 micron = > 20 micron still, right?

I vaguely remember this discussion others had on this very point. I can't recall the particulars though.

Yes, but 20.001 microns is also >20 microns. IMO, it basically means @ 20 microns and above, which means it is also filtering out 20 micron particles at that efficiency rate.


I get what they WANT me to think it means but what does it 'really'?

That's all I want to know.

 

[Stelth]

Originally Posted By: zerosoma
fram sucks


Oh, OK. I guess that settles it then.