VI Index and HTHS number

oilmansi · Jan 16, 2005

I'm doing a brief study on these numbers in a number of European and US oils.

Can anyone help me in pointing me in the right direction to obtain the VI Index and HTHS numbers for Redline, Amsoil and Royal Purple oils?

I cannot find them published anywhere, seems to be a big secret with some manufacturers on both sides of the water.

Thanks in advance
Simon

haley10 · Jan 16, 2005

Hopefully, I'm not violating any rules, but www.amsoil.com wesite will have data sheets for all their products. No secret.

I haven't visited recently, but Redline and RP also had data sheets. I've seen them.

Doesn't you search engine get you to the USA websites?

Jelly · Jan 16, 2005

Does VI index really even matter?

haley10 · Jan 16, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by Jelly:
Does VI index really even matter?

Maybe it's just an emperical number, but if you know the other factors, it could gain you some insight. For example XHVI could show you some higher #'s than a cheap Grp III if VI improvers were not added. Might show you a bit about quality of the basestock if HT/HS and other factors were known.

darkdan · Jan 17, 2005

If viscosity index didn't matter we'd all be using SAE 30 oil. =)

TheFuror · Jan 17, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by oilmansi:
I'm doing a brief study on these numbers in a number of European and US oils.

Can anyone help me in pointing me in the right direction to obtain the VI Index and HTHS numbers for Redline, Amsoil and Royal Purple oils?

I cannot find them published anywhere, seems to be a big secret with some manufacturers on both sides of the water.

Thanks in advance
Simon

I made up a chart of several oils and it contains this info.

Since I am too stupid to figure out how to post it here, I will send it to you (and anybody else for that matter) if you would like.

Thanx

bob W.

dustyjoe1 · Jan 17, 2005

quote:

If viscosity index didn't matter we'd all be using SAE 30 oil. =)

Down here sae 30 is a pretty good choice actually. I've seen an awful lot of old ford trucks go 300,000 on plain old Havoline or QS "straight 30 in the winter and Straight 40 in the summer. to be fair, I've never used the 40

oilmansi · Jan 17, 2005

I am led to understand that VI Index and HTHS number does "indicate" the quality of the basestocks used.

This is an internal study though.

Bob, if you could email it to me at

[email protected]

it would be much appreciated.

Thanks for all the help so far.

Cheers
Simon

TallPaul · Jan 17, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by TheFuror:
Since I am too stupid to figure out how to post it here ...

If you are like me, it's not a matter of intellegence, but time.

quote:

Originally posted by dustyjoe1:
Down here sae 30 is a pretty good choice actually. I've seen an awful lot of old ford trucks go 300,000 on plain old Havoline or QS "straight 30 in the winter and Straight 40 in the summer. to be fair, I've never used the 40

I don't know about the straight 40, but I read that a straight 30 should pass the 20w test and so is effectively a 20w30. Go with any multigrade Redline oil but 5w40 and you have a straight weight oil.

quote:

Originally posted by oilmansi:
I am led to understand that VI Index and HTHS number does "indicate" the quality of the basestocks used.

If we could get VI apart from added viscosity index improvers (VIIs), it would be a good indicator. But a cheap dino loaded with VIIs might show nearly as good a VI number as say Redline 5w30 which has no VIIs.

I do think HTHS is a good indicator of oil robustness as it goes up with higher grades like synthetic, particularly ester (Redline), and it goes up with thickness of base oil; hence, a 15w40 will have a higher HTHS (usually) than a 10w40 of the same brand, all else equal.

Why don't you try NOACK% as an indicator of quality basestocks. The lower the better. Compare NOACK between conventional and synthetic and between 5w30 and 20w50 and you will see a big difference in most cases.

MGBV8 · Jan 17, 2005

Simon,

With the type of customers you are trying to attract it would be useful to at least publish on your website, as you already have a good selection of oils to choose from. Additives would also be useful as only VOAs or used oil analysis give any indication.

http://www.royalpurple.com/pdfsi/rpmoips.pdf

Data sheets
http://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/engine_oils.htm
#Series%202000%2020W-50%20Racing%20Oil

royal purple 5w30= 3.2
amsoil S2000 0w-30, HTHS= 3.5
german syntec 0w-30, HTHS= 3.5
Schaeffer #156 5w30, HTHS= 3.8
redline 5w30, HTHS= 3.8

I would contact Oil Companies direct for the latest specification as never too sure how old some of data is from www.

TallPaul · Jan 18, 2005

quote:

Schaeffer #156 5w30, HTHS= 3.8
redline 5w30, HTHS= 3.8
[/QB]

Hey now, that Schaeffer's looks like some pretty robust stuff.

I think there are a lot of 10w40s that don't have any better HTHS than 3.8.

oilmansi · Jan 18, 2005

These are some of the best ones I've seen to date:

Silkolene PRO S 5w-40

KV 100DegC 14.89
KV 40DDegC 92.35
VI Index 169
Pour -51 DegC
Flash 210 DegC
HTHS 4.07

Motul 300V 5w-40

KV 100DegC 13.80
KV 40DDegC 80.80
VI Index 176
Pour -36 DegC
Flash 216 DegC
HTHS 4.51

Silkolene PRO S 10w-50

KV 100DegC 18.17
KV 40DDegC 116.49
VI Index 174
Pour -33 DegC
Flash 210 DegC
HTHS 5.11

Motul 300V 10w-40

KV 100DegC 14
KV 40DDegC 89.5
VI Index 161
Pour -36 DegC
Flash 226 DegC
HTHS 4.19

Silkolene PRO R 15w-50

KV 100DegC 18.2
KV 40DDegC 130
VI Index 156
Pour -35 DegC
Flash 200 DegC
HTHS 5.23

Motul 300V 15w-50

KV 100DegC 17.8
KV 40DDegC 128.1
VI Index 154
Pour -36 DegC
Flash 215 DegC
HTHS 5.33

Any comments from the experts?

Cheers
Simon

TallPaul · Jan 18, 2005

Also:

Redline 5w40
KV 100DegC 15.1
KV 40DDegC 94
VI Index 170
Pour -45 DegC
Flash 250 DegC
HTHS 4.6

Redline 10w40
KV 100DegC 14.6
KV 40DDegC 98
VI Index 154
Pour -45 DegC
Flash 248 DegC
HTHS 4.7

MGBV8 · Jan 18, 2005

Tallpaul,

I assume that's Redline race oil, not street oil?

On paper the Redline esters have the edge over Motul double esters. However, how do the additives stack up if you require a street oil, rather than race oil.

TallPaul · Jan 18, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by MGBV8:
Tallpaul,

I assume that's Redline race oil, not street oil?

On paper the Redline esters have the edge over Motul double esters. However, how do the additives stack up if you require a street oil, rather than race oil.

No, that is street oil. Redline Race oil 40 weight only comes as 15w40. I did not include the street 15w40 as it said diesel only for that one.

I was told by Redline (some time ago and IIRC) that there is about 1600 ppm zinc, phosphoros, and maybe it was 900 moly. But I think VOAs have shown somewhat lower (although decent) levels, as typically happens comparing VOA to manufacturer data.

BTW, while Redline street oil has detergents, I would think the high amount of ester (50% maybe) would have an inherent detergency and that it would not be prone to making deposits. I just wonder if the racing oil would suffice in a street situation (not to recommend that though).

EDIT: Oh yeah. I wanted to post Valvoline Synpower 5w40, but called and their techs said they did not have the HTHS #. Anyway, here is the Synpower 540 fwiw:

100C vis: 13.8
40C vis: 81.3
V index: 175
pour pt: -39
flash pt: 238

Stuff doesn't look too bad actually.

Oilmansi: Hey, instead of flash point, have you considered NOACK%? (That being evaporative loss over a time period at a certain temp. Single digit % is very good.)

[ January 19, 2005, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: TallPaul ]

VI Index and HTHS number

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