Very alarming manual trans oil change....

[Delta1]

2006 Saturn Ion Redline. When I bought the car 6 years ago I knew the trans was not so healthy. It would grind 3-4 shift if I shifted too quickly, and would pop out of 5th sometimes. I bought a new transmission as a backup, for when the day came that I would start loosing gears.
50,000 km later it still shifts! Not much different from when I bought it. Lately it will grind going into 5th when cold, so I thought why not change on that trans oil....
and wow I have never seen more glitter in old oil before! At first I thought there was ATF in there because of the red/ orange hue of the oil, although I swear it was clear when I bought the car 6 years prior. Brought the flashlight out and oh wow, it's all glitter, almost like a lava lamp! I can't believe the trans still works! Oh and there was a nice little pile of shavings on the drain plug magnet as well.

Now this trans has a Quafe LSD in it. Would contaminated oil hurt the LSD?
I was hoping to harvest it from the old trans when I do the transplant.

 

[We're Metals]

If there was any damage caused, its already done. Do short changes in the future and cary on.

 

[eljefino]

^ yeah it's an 18 year old hot compact from a defunct company. Fill it and send it!

 

[slacktide_bitog]

I think GM did say to use ATF in those transmissions, but not 100% sure

Is this one of those "no lift shift" cars? Around that time, GM had advertised some of their performance compacts to have no lift shift, where you keep your foot on the gas when shifting. It doesn't sound too good for a transmission

 

[Delta1]

I think GM did say to use ATF in those transmissions, but not 100% sure

Is this one of those "no lift shift" cars? Around that time, GM had advertised some of their performance compacts to have no lift shift, where you keep your foot on the gas when shifting. It doesn't sound too good for a transmission

It was the base model Ions that ran ATF in the manual transmissions, but the Redlines have a Getrag box that uses 75w90.

My car does not have the 'no lift shift' feature, that was in the later Cobalt SS turbos.... but it must be pretty hard on the trans, and the car in general!

 

[slacktide_bitog]

It was the base model Ions that ran ATF in the manual transmissions, but the Redlines have a Getrag box that uses 75w90.

My car does not have the 'no lift shift' feature, that was in the later Cobalt SS turbos.... but it must be pretty hard on the trans, and the car in general!

As you know, it is difficult to find 75w90 that's suitable for an MT in the US or Canada. Liqui-Moly recently came out with one, but it's still making its way into stores. Using GL5 75w90 meant for differentials is often hard on the yellow metals used in synchros.

Maybe you have worn synchros

Do you keep your hand on the shifter even when not shifting?

Maybe it might be worth adding this Lubegard supplement to any MT-safe 75w90 GL4

Do you still have the old fluid by any chance? If so, get a UOA done on it

 

[Duckless]

As you know, it is difficult to find 75w90 that's suitable for an MT in the US or Canada.

Redline MT90 is exactly what you are looking for and available.

 

[Delta1]

As you know, it is difficult to find 75w90 that's suitable for an MT in the US or Canada. Liqui-Moly recently came out with one, but it's still making its way into stores. Using GL5 75w90 meant for differentials is often hard on the yellow metals used in synchros.

Maybe you have worn synchros

Do you keep your hand on the shifter even when not shifting?

Maybe it might be worth adding this Lubegard supplement to any MT-safe 75w90 GL4

Do you still have the old fluid by any chance? If so, get a UOA done on it

Yes it was hard to find the correct fluid! I got some AC Delco 75w85 from the local GM dealer which they sold me based on my vin #.
It took a few phone calls though, it's almost as if they did not want me to get any? Weird....

There is no doubt in my mind that I have worn synchros..... and sometimes I do keep a hand on the shifter to keep it from popping out of 5th under light load.

At this point it's time to start planning my trans swap, probably in September.

Knock on wood this trans gets me through the summer, I'll granny shift all the way there if I have to!

 

[930.engineering]

Redline MT90 is exactly what you are looking for and available.

This, or some Ford MTF and BMW MTF LT-4 75W-90 (GL-3/4, very most Mini R5X, they all use Getrag units).
-

 

[Sequoiasoon]

I had light grinding issues at higher RPM's on my Corolla for a long time. Recommendation from a friend that was a BMW mechanic (RIP Geoff) was to use BG Synchro Shift II. BMW was using it for the same issues on the vehicles that came in with complaints. About 20 miles after putting it in, all grinding was gone.

That was after numerous after other fluid changes from different brands and Toyota. 3 shops said I needed rebuild. I tried the BG as a last chance kind of thing at the time. 3qts of BG and about $45 and no more issues. I did change it yearly after that just because and it was nice smooth at all RPM's for the at least 75k until car got totaled.

As explained to me at the time, the slightly thicker MT fluids were adding very slight extra drag on the synchro's, just enough to cause issues.

@MolaKule - had posted a thread with viscosity comparisons of many different MT fluids so you can see where your choices fall.

Hyundai had a TSB way back for the Genesis where they were using Pentosin MTF to replaced factory due to cold weather shifting issues especially 2nd gear. I had the same in my Sonata, the Pentosin helped a lot, not gone but better. Once warmed up they were all ok (The BG didn't help that one, no worse but no noticeable improvement.

 

[vwmaniaman]

On my VW's I have found that my crunch shift to second gear is gone if I put about a fourth of a quart of Lucas in the trans. I know Lucas is not loved here but my son said it worked for him on his Ford so I tried it.

 

[nascarnation]

If you plan on keeping this little gem, it might be good to procure the needed trans rebuild parts if/while they are still available even it you're not ready to tear it apart now. I'm finding a lot of Saturn parts are fading away as we approach the 20 yr mark.

 

[Delta1]

If you plan on keeping this little gem, it might be good to procure the needed trans rebuild parts if/while they are still available even it you're not ready to tear it apart now. I'm finding a lot of Saturn parts are fading away as we approach the 20 yr mark.

Yes for sure I plan on keeping this car!
Thankfully I was able to buy a new transmission 5 years ago, I'll be installing that when either the current transmission starts losing gears or the clutch goes.
It's a coin toss to see which fails first!

 

[Whimsey]

Yes for sure I plan on keeping this car!
Thankfully I was able to buy a new transmission 5 years ago, I'll be installing that when either the current transmission starts losing gears or the clutch goes.
It's a coin toss to see which fails first!

It's not your vehicle but a 1996 Ford Contour with the 5 sp, MTX75, I believe. It is factory spec'd for Mercon ATF. The Mercon ATF was not performing well with shifting. I used Royal Purple Synchro Max, which is similar viscosity to the ATF but meant for manual transmissions. It's worked really well. It shifts really good in the dead of winter as well as summer, in NJ anyway . I'm sure there are other MTF that work also, but this is my experience.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Yes it was hard to find the correct fluid! I got some AC Delco 75w85 from the local GM dealer which they sold me based on my vin #.
It took a few phone calls though, it's almost as if they did not want me to get any? Weird....

There is no doubt in my mind that I have worn synchros..... and sometimes I do keep a hand on the shifter to keep it from popping out of 5th under light load.

At this point it's time to start planning my trans swap, probably in September.

Knock on wood this trans gets me through the summer, I'll granny shift all the way there if I have to!

In many cases, resting your hand on the shifter can *cause* the popout. I remember this being common on Nissans, for example

 

[Delta1]

In many cases, resting your hand on the shifter can *cause* the popout. I remember this being common on Nissans, for example

It will for sure pop out of 5th on it's own under light load, always has,
so I only keep a 'light hand' on the shifter when I know I am approaching a stretch of highway where it usually pops out of 5th.

I know it's technically not good for anything trans related to rest a hand on the shifter, but I figured the damage is done at this point, so I have nothing to lose.

Interestingly enough, I noticed a few years ago that using cruise control for some reason makes it less likely to pop out, could be the way the CC modulates the throttle.

 

[Delta1]

As you know, it is difficult to find 75w90 that's suitable for an MT in the US or Canada. Liqui-Moly recently came out with one, but it's still making its way into stores. Using GL5 75w90 meant for differentials is often hard on the yellow metals used in synchros.

Maybe you have worn synchros

Do you keep your hand on the shifter even when not shifting?

Maybe it might be worth adding this Lubegard supplement to any MT-safe 75w90 GL4

Do you still have the old fluid by any chance? If so, get a UOA done on it

Yes I saved the old oil, I want to try and fabricate a lava lamp out of the oil/ suspended yellow metal.
For sure I want to also do a UOA on some of it too, the results should be quite amusing ....

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Yes I saved the old oil, I want to try and fabricate a lava lamp out of the oil/ suspended yellow metal.
For sure I want to also do a UOA on some of it too, the results should be quite amusing ....

I can't wait to see the results