It all depends on what kind of vegetarian you are. My wife and kids are vegetarians, and it's quite common throughout our church. All their canned/frozen meat substitutes are very high in sodium -- like super-high. If you are a vegetarian living off of fruits, veggies, nuts, and grains, I say "go for it". If you are a vegetarian that eats cheese pizza, fettuccine alfredo, bean burritos, and canned/frozen meat substitutes, I say "no way".
Vegetarianism?
- Thread starter GumbyJarvis
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Originally Posted By: Pablo
I was a vegetarian for three years. I gained weight, I felt miserable and just didn't see the pluses. And before people chime in and say I "didn't do it right", you might want to know the truth and facts.
I consulted everything I could, paid and unpaid. I listened and learned from healthy vegetarians. I didn't (always) just stuff myself with bread to keep full, but that never went away. And I'm not talking garbage bread, but rather the best organic homemade. At the end even the ardent vegetarians told me "it's not for everyone".
So here's my take: there are different body types. Some people just need the protein and nutrients in meat. Bottom line.
When my ex decided that "we were vegan" I definitely lost muscle tone and my cycling endurance fell off.
I started "cheating" by going to Whole Foods at lunch and having an apple with cheese or some yogurt. (she could smell when I had meat....dairy didn't ping her radar) Endurance picked back up.
Had a friend in my cycling group who was an organic raw food vegan. Nothing but raw fruits and vegetables and made all her own juice. Only bought water from some protected source blah blah blah $4 a bottle. She had a stroke at 40. You can't beat your genetics with any kind of diet
I was a vegetarian for three years. I gained weight, I felt miserable and just didn't see the pluses. And before people chime in and say I "didn't do it right", you might want to know the truth and facts.
I consulted everything I could, paid and unpaid. I listened and learned from healthy vegetarians. I didn't (always) just stuff myself with bread to keep full, but that never went away. And I'm not talking garbage bread, but rather the best organic homemade. At the end even the ardent vegetarians told me "it's not for everyone".
So here's my take: there are different body types. Some people just need the protein and nutrients in meat. Bottom line.
When my ex decided that "we were vegan" I definitely lost muscle tone and my cycling endurance fell off.
I started "cheating" by going to Whole Foods at lunch and having an apple with cheese or some yogurt. (she could smell when I had meat....dairy didn't ping her radar) Endurance picked back up.
Had a friend in my cycling group who was an organic raw food vegan. Nothing but raw fruits and vegetables and made all her own juice. Only bought water from some protected source blah blah blah $4 a bottle. She had a stroke at 40. You can't beat your genetics with any kind of diet
Read -
The Vegetarian Myth: Food, Justice, and Sustainability by Lierre Keith
and -
Protein Power: The High-Protein/Low Carbohydrate Way to Lose Weight, Feel Fit, and Boost Your Health-in Just Weeks! by Michael R. Eades (Author) , Mary Dan Eades (Author)
- that's all you need for a long healthy life. Both available at Amazon. Thanks for all you do - come home safe.
The Vegetarian Myth: Food, Justice, and Sustainability by Lierre Keith
and -
Protein Power: The High-Protein/Low Carbohydrate Way to Lose Weight, Feel Fit, and Boost Your Health-in Just Weeks! by Michael R. Eades (Author) , Mary Dan Eades (Author)
- that's all you need for a long healthy life. Both available at Amazon. Thanks for all you do - come home safe.
Originally Posted By: Fleetmon
If animals weren't meant to be eaten then how come they're made out of meat?
Good one...
If animals weren't meant to be eaten then how come they're made out of meat?
Good one...
I look at it this way. We are animals, like cats and need meat. I think the best bet is trying to eat healthy lean meats in moderation and limit excess in quantities of meat and carbs. I think North Americans need to cut out added sugars and white grains bread etc...i think lean meats and veggies, fruit, nuts and dairy is great. Why does everyone go against meat?
HFCS, fruit juice anything sugary or starchy should probably be cut down on before pointing fingers at meat. I love red meat but i cut down to eating lean red meat 1-2 times per week. I could never go vegetarian..i love meat way too much.
Not to say im against others deciding to be vegetarian. You can eat lots of lentils, beans, legumes, veggies, tofu etc etc. Get some recipes online and try it for a week. Make sure you take an iron supplement since if im not mistaken is hard to get. Good luck!
HFCS, fruit juice anything sugary or starchy should probably be cut down on before pointing fingers at meat. I love red meat but i cut down to eating lean red meat 1-2 times per week. I could never go vegetarian..i love meat way too much.
Not to say im against others deciding to be vegetarian. You can eat lots of lentils, beans, legumes, veggies, tofu etc etc. Get some recipes online and try it for a week. Make sure you take an iron supplement since if im not mistaken is hard to get. Good luck!
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
Make sure you take an iron supplement since if im not mistaken is hard to get. Good luck!
Leafy greens will kick the heck out of dead flesh for iron. Mushrooms, as well. Growing your own spinach, kale and/ or Swiss chard is easier than you can imagine, cheaper than you can imagine is burgeoning with life-giving properties.
You can get an absolute abundance of everything you need without meat. Vegans will often require a B12 supplement.
Make sure you take an iron supplement since if im not mistaken is hard to get. Good luck!
Leafy greens will kick the heck out of dead flesh for iron. Mushrooms, as well. Growing your own spinach, kale and/ or Swiss chard is easier than you can imagine, cheaper than you can imagine is burgeoning with life-giving properties.
You can get an absolute abundance of everything you need without meat. Vegans will often require a B12 supplement.
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
You can get an absolute abundance of everything you need without meat. Vegans will often require a B12 supplement.
Heck unfiltered beer with a little yeast will take care of that!
You can get an absolute abundance of everything you need without meat. Vegans will often require a B12 supplement.
Heck unfiltered beer with a little yeast will take care of that!
Originally Posted By: Mykl
Originally Posted By: GreeCguy
Something else to consider for what it's worth. According to the Bible, people didn't start eating meat until after the Great Flood. If you plot a timeline, you'll notice after the flood people started living shorter and shorter lives, (Adam died at 930 years old as opposed to Moses who died at 120). While I'm not saying meat eating was the sole cause of a rapid decline in lifespans, it is something to think about in how we were originally created.
Is there any evidence that supports this? Because I'll give up meat if it means living for another five centuries.
I can only point to the down side to this - five centuries with no bacon.
Originally Posted By: GreeCguy
Something else to consider for what it's worth. According to the Bible, people didn't start eating meat until after the Great Flood. If you plot a timeline, you'll notice after the flood people started living shorter and shorter lives, (Adam died at 930 years old as opposed to Moses who died at 120). While I'm not saying meat eating was the sole cause of a rapid decline in lifespans, it is something to think about in how we were originally created.
Is there any evidence that supports this? Because I'll give up meat if it means living for another five centuries.
I can only point to the down side to this - five centuries with no bacon.
Originally Posted By: Schmoe
It's all about exercise......the typical American diet wouldn't be all that bad if we were working in the fields and burning calories, but we are not. How many stories have you heard, or know first hand, of hard physical working men that eat bacon/eggs, steak, etc. etc. everyday and lived to be well into their late 70's or 80's?
Let's not forget the kinds of food consumed by our farming ancestors. When I grew up, we never ate anything out of a can. We grew a large garden and whatever was in season, that's what we ate.
My Dad and my Uncles butchered their own mean every year. Chicken dinners consisted of a chicken that had been walking around the yard sometime during the day and fish was a fresh as the local pond.
Combine that with dawn to dusk work and full nights sleep, (bed time was 8:30 every night and wake up time five am every morning).
I firmly believe that's the reason my Dad is still kicking at almost 95 years old and all his brothers and sisters lived into their 90's, (his oldest sister passed away at 98).
It's all about exercise......the typical American diet wouldn't be all that bad if we were working in the fields and burning calories, but we are not. How many stories have you heard, or know first hand, of hard physical working men that eat bacon/eggs, steak, etc. etc. everyday and lived to be well into their late 70's or 80's?
Let's not forget the kinds of food consumed by our farming ancestors. When I grew up, we never ate anything out of a can. We grew a large garden and whatever was in season, that's what we ate.
My Dad and my Uncles butchered their own mean every year. Chicken dinners consisted of a chicken that had been walking around the yard sometime during the day and fish was a fresh as the local pond.
Combine that with dawn to dusk work and full nights sleep, (bed time was 8:30 every night and wake up time five am every morning).
I firmly believe that's the reason my Dad is still kicking at almost 95 years old and all his brothers and sisters lived into their 90's, (his oldest sister passed away at 98).
Originally Posted By: GumbyJarvis
Oh, and my sincerest apologies for dropping from 330 lbs to 190 lbs in 13 months to defend my country and serve my time in the armed forces. Because that's the new "fad" diet.
No, I changed my life for the better actually. Not working at a gas station and doing something with my life.
Good for you!!! Don't worry if someone is trying to bring you down in some form or fashion. Some people are just like that for whatever reason and it's hard to understand. They are better ignored rather than answered or acknowledged.
Be proud of yourself for your accomplishments. Dropping that kind of weight and making major life changes for the better is something to be proud of. I'm sure the majority here in lovely Bitog land are proud of you and thankful you serve our country so that when the lights go out at night, we sleep under the blanket of your protection. Thank you for your service to our country. Stay strong, stay safe, God bless
Oh, and my sincerest apologies for dropping from 330 lbs to 190 lbs in 13 months to defend my country and serve my time in the armed forces. Because that's the new "fad" diet.
No, I changed my life for the better actually. Not working at a gas station and doing something with my life.
Good for you!!! Don't worry if someone is trying to bring you down in some form or fashion. Some people are just like that for whatever reason and it's hard to understand. They are better ignored rather than answered or acknowledged.
Be proud of yourself for your accomplishments. Dropping that kind of weight and making major life changes for the better is something to be proud of. I'm sure the majority here in lovely Bitog land are proud of you and thankful you serve our country so that when the lights go out at night, we sleep under the blanket of your protection. Thank you for your service to our country. Stay strong, stay safe, God bless
Originally Posted By: GreeCguy
Something else to consider for what it's worth. According to the Bible, people didn't start eating meat until after the Great Flood. If you plot a timeline, you'll notice after the flood people started living shorter and shorter lives, (Adam died at 930 years old as opposed to Moses who died at 120). While I'm not saying meat eating was the sole cause of a rapid decline in lifespans, it is something to think about in how we were originally created.
I'm not going to make this a religious post, but if you read the Bible, the real reason people don't live as long as Adam is explained...and it has nothing to do with eating meat.
Something else to consider for what it's worth. According to the Bible, people didn't start eating meat until after the Great Flood. If you plot a timeline, you'll notice after the flood people started living shorter and shorter lives, (Adam died at 930 years old as opposed to Moses who died at 120). While I'm not saying meat eating was the sole cause of a rapid decline in lifespans, it is something to think about in how we were originally created.
I'm not going to make this a religious post, but if you read the Bible, the real reason people don't live as long as Adam is explained...and it has nothing to do with eating meat.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Heck unfiltered beer with a little yeast will take care of that!
It sure does: I brew a pretty mean Belgian-style ale and there is no shortage of B12-rich sediment at the bottom!
Vegans will also eat a lot of B12-enriched nutritional yeast, which is *delicious*. I have taken to dumping that stuff wholesale onto salad mixes, pastas, sandwiches, stews; really anywhere I would have used cheese in the past.
Heck unfiltered beer with a little yeast will take care of that!
It sure does: I brew a pretty mean Belgian-style ale and there is no shortage of B12-rich sediment at the bottom!
Vegans will also eat a lot of B12-enriched nutritional yeast, which is *delicious*. I have taken to dumping that stuff wholesale onto salad mixes, pastas, sandwiches, stews; really anywhere I would have used cheese in the past.
Originally Posted By: ryansride2017
(Adam died at 930 years old as opposed to Moses who died at 120).
This is a result of mis-translations sprinkled in with some fanaticism and, dare I say, some rhetorical flourish. The people who wrote these accounts lived in a culture who used a lunar calendar, so these are often (our) months, not years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_calendar
http://www.askjohnmackay.com/questions/a...pans-real-years
There is also an engaging discussion on Reddit about this same subject that expounds on these theories; positing more complex ideas that go beyond the simple math of lunar versus solar timekeeping. Well worth the read: http://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/co...e_portrayed_to/
My neighbour is a rabbi and they live their lives by this calendar still: it makes for some extremely confusing planning for them, having to exist within a culture that lives by a solar calendar.
(Adam died at 930 years old as opposed to Moses who died at 120).
This is a result of mis-translations sprinkled in with some fanaticism and, dare I say, some rhetorical flourish. The people who wrote these accounts lived in a culture who used a lunar calendar, so these are often (our) months, not years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_calendar
http://www.askjohnmackay.com/questions/a...pans-real-years
There is also an engaging discussion on Reddit about this same subject that expounds on these theories; positing more complex ideas that go beyond the simple math of lunar versus solar timekeeping. Well worth the read: http://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/co...e_portrayed_to/
My neighbour is a rabbi and they live their lives by this calendar still: it makes for some extremely confusing planning for them, having to exist within a culture that lives by a solar calendar.
A lot of times I eat things on the "vegetarian" menu at restaurants and such, though I definitely do not exclude meat from my diet. It isn't a conscious thing so much as a preference thing. I love vegetables, a lot. I can eat vegetables all day. I don't know that it is.
I am a picky eater. I eat small quantities of pork and beef, but they are in my diet. At least 80% of the meat I eat is chicken, usually grilled.
I will not touch fish, or any other animal that lives in the water. It is simply not appealing to my palate at all. It's like eating roaches to me. The smell, texture, taste, and really everything else about seafood is totally unappealing to me no matter how it is cooked.
I eat a fair amount of bad, non-meat things like bread and cheese, but there's a ton a vegetables in there too. The cheese at least provides protein and some vitamins, though I probably do consume it in excess.
I am a healthy weight, but on the higher end (160-165, 5'9"), rarely get sick, and can eat like a horse. I probably should have some seafood in my diet as it can be healthy, but that won't happen because I find it to be disgusting.
I think it's the large vegetable intake that keeps me healthy, and the fact that a lot of the chicken I eat is grilled. Vegetarianism works if you are getting protein and doing the vege part. You need the vegetables (digestible nutrients) and protein. Without those things it's not a healthy lifestyle. I think a lot of people who call themselves vegetarians don't get enough vegetables and are trying to survive on nutrient poor foods, which isn't healthy at all.
I am a picky eater. I eat small quantities of pork and beef, but they are in my diet. At least 80% of the meat I eat is chicken, usually grilled.
I will not touch fish, or any other animal that lives in the water. It is simply not appealing to my palate at all. It's like eating roaches to me. The smell, texture, taste, and really everything else about seafood is totally unappealing to me no matter how it is cooked.
I eat a fair amount of bad, non-meat things like bread and cheese, but there's a ton a vegetables in there too. The cheese at least provides protein and some vitamins, though I probably do consume it in excess.
I am a healthy weight, but on the higher end (160-165, 5'9"), rarely get sick, and can eat like a horse. I probably should have some seafood in my diet as it can be healthy, but that won't happen because I find it to be disgusting.
I think it's the large vegetable intake that keeps me healthy, and the fact that a lot of the chicken I eat is grilled. Vegetarianism works if you are getting protein and doing the vege part. You need the vegetables (digestible nutrients) and protein. Without those things it's not a healthy lifestyle. I think a lot of people who call themselves vegetarians don't get enough vegetables and are trying to survive on nutrient poor foods, which isn't healthy at all.
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
Make sure you take an iron supplement since if im not mistaken is hard to get. Good luck!
Leafy greens will kick the heck out of dead flesh for iron. Mushrooms, as well. Growing your own spinach, kale and/ or Swiss chard is easier than you can imagine, cheaper than you can imagine is burgeoning with life-giving properties.
You can get an absolute abundance of everything you need without meat. Vegans will often require a B12 supplement.
There are no reliable strictly plant sourced B12 supplements.
One can argue that the single celled protists are neither animal nor plant. They may or may not be correct but they do have some animal like traits
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
Make sure you take an iron supplement since if im not mistaken is hard to get. Good luck!
Leafy greens will kick the heck out of dead flesh for iron. Mushrooms, as well. Growing your own spinach, kale and/ or Swiss chard is easier than you can imagine, cheaper than you can imagine is burgeoning with life-giving properties.
You can get an absolute abundance of everything you need without meat. Vegans will often require a B12 supplement.
There are no reliable strictly plant sourced B12 supplements.
One can argue that the single celled protists are neither animal nor plant. They may or may not be correct but they do have some animal like traits
Yeast is meat? I'm very omnivorous. I'm gaining weight on 2 PBJs and dinner a day. I make my own bread in a Zojirushi bread machine. 2 cups of King Arthur white whole wheat, 2 1/2 cups KA white flour. 2 tsps of yeast , A tbs or 2 of olive oil, a tbs of molasses. Store brand crunchy peanut butter. Discount store jelly from the first world. Marmalade is my current favorite. PBJs are like home made power bars. I can start a loaf of bread in less than 5 minutes. I make 2 a week, so I have the process down cold. The same with the PBJs. Dinner is usually meat and starch and a vegetable or 2 maybe a salad.
I make peasoup from hambones and chili from beans. I try to stay away from processed foods unless I'm doing the processing.
I was raised on fresh seafood because it was cheaper than beef. I really miss seafood, it is no longer cheaper than chicken. Farm raised fish cant compare to wild caught.
Cheese is a favorite, . The Mediterranean diet works, more nuts and cheese , less red meat. Olive oil and red wine. Tuna in oil, sardines, It is expensive too.
When I was getting chemo, my tongue got irritated.Food hurt to eat. The medecine was worse than the condition. I glommed onto cottage cheese and lived on it for a week until my tongue healed.
I make peasoup from hambones and chili from beans. I try to stay away from processed foods unless I'm doing the processing.
I was raised on fresh seafood because it was cheaper than beef. I really miss seafood, it is no longer cheaper than chicken. Farm raised fish cant compare to wild caught.
Cheese is a favorite, . The Mediterranean diet works, more nuts and cheese , less red meat. Olive oil and red wine. Tuna in oil, sardines, It is expensive too.
When I was getting chemo, my tongue got irritated.Food hurt to eat. The medecine was worse than the condition. I glommed onto cottage cheese and lived on it for a week until my tongue healed.
One of these days I will get back to good exercise. I found that helped regulate my diet quite well. Kinda hard to do with these short and cold days at the moment though.
Years ago I caught some special on TV about the longest running heart study in the US, I think was being done in MA. Hour long show, something like that. Anyhow they had a family on there with some gene that was screwed up--the teens had cholesterol deep in the 200's, mom was like deep in the 300's. Something caused them to pack on the points. Anyhow the camera's caught the teens getting chewed out by the doc for not popping a pill, and I wanted to yell at the idiot box (at the idiots on it) for not doing the simplest of measures to prolong their life--just take the darn pill, it's easier than a diet change! Heck, I'd be willing to go vegetarian if the doc said it'd let me life a few more decades--and then it hit me, I had gotten old enough that life was no longer centered around food, where I'd be willing to give up meat.
Not a vegetarian but I'm slowly starting to like more and more vegs, and less cheap meats. The other weekend I had the veggie sub at Subway, and was suprised that I actually liked it. Might not take the place of a proper Italian but it's possible that I liked that veggie sub better than Subway's Italian.
Years ago I caught some special on TV about the longest running heart study in the US, I think was being done in MA. Hour long show, something like that. Anyhow they had a family on there with some gene that was screwed up--the teens had cholesterol deep in the 200's, mom was like deep in the 300's. Something caused them to pack on the points. Anyhow the camera's caught the teens getting chewed out by the doc for not popping a pill, and I wanted to yell at the idiot box (at the idiots on it) for not doing the simplest of measures to prolong their life--just take the darn pill, it's easier than a diet change! Heck, I'd be willing to go vegetarian if the doc said it'd let me life a few more decades--and then it hit me, I had gotten old enough that life was no longer centered around food, where I'd be willing to give up meat.
Not a vegetarian but I'm slowly starting to like more and more vegs, and less cheap meats. The other weekend I had the veggie sub at Subway, and was suprised that I actually liked it. Might not take the place of a proper Italian but it's possible that I liked that veggie sub better than Subway's Italian.
You are, as indicated, going to hear a lot of anti-vegetarian people making fun or otherwise being negative toward vegetarianism. It's sort of a normal thing when one decides to do something different than the majority. I would say that you need to first, be sure WHY you want to be a vegetarian. If it means a lot to you and you have reasons that YOU honestly believe are important to YOU...then that is a good start. Secondly, as I'm sure you know, there are many different degrees of vegetarianism to consider. Some are VERY limiting and strict in nature and don't believe in consuming ANY animal derived products of ANY kind....while others on the other side of the aisle will consume dairy, eggs, or even fish. A lot of variations in vegetarianism.
I tried being a moderate vegetarian last year. I'd stopped eating red meat already and figured that I don't NEED to have chicken or fish. I even stopped dairy of all kinds. It lasted about 6 months for me. I found it difficult to follow (not for cravings....just staying away from all animal products was more than I imagined). It created stress going shopping and I felt almost like I was doing it for no real reason. Then at about the start of the sixth month I really seemed to lack energy or stamina of sorts. My workouts started to feel flat and my recovery was increasing. So....I decided that while I would no longer eat red meat of any kind...I would start eating poultry and fish. Almost overnight I began to feel better. Within 2 weeks my body felt..."normal" again. I also eat low fat dairy products.
So....while being a vegetarian didn't work for me, it might be something you should try for a while. If, after 6 months to a year you feel it's something you have benefitted from....great! Or, if like me, just a diet change or modification is all that is required to obtain what you are seeking, then that is good as well.
I think balance is the key in most things.
I tried being a moderate vegetarian last year. I'd stopped eating red meat already and figured that I don't NEED to have chicken or fish. I even stopped dairy of all kinds. It lasted about 6 months for me. I found it difficult to follow (not for cravings....just staying away from all animal products was more than I imagined). It created stress going shopping and I felt almost like I was doing it for no real reason. Then at about the start of the sixth month I really seemed to lack energy or stamina of sorts. My workouts started to feel flat and my recovery was increasing. So....I decided that while I would no longer eat red meat of any kind...I would start eating poultry and fish. Almost overnight I began to feel better. Within 2 weeks my body felt..."normal" again. I also eat low fat dairy products.
So....while being a vegetarian didn't work for me, it might be something you should try for a while. If, after 6 months to a year you feel it's something you have benefitted from....great! Or, if like me, just a diet change or modification is all that is required to obtain what you are seeking, then that is good as well.
I think balance is the key in most things.
Originally Posted By: andrewg
I think balance is the key in most things.
Couldn't agree more!
I think balance is the key in most things.
Couldn't agree more!
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