Vega or Pinto which sucked the worse?
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Of the two presented in the OP, I'd have to say the Vega. GM was really silly to try something so 'experimental' and un-proven so fast (the sleeveless aluminum engine). Had the 2.3 engine in the Vega been a regular iron block engine, the only thing the Vega would be known for is bad rust, but ALL 1970's cars were bad for that.
I'm really, really suprised by the votes in this thread for the Gremlin as a bad car. By the 'standards of the day', the Gremlin was a very solid, reliable car. It's straight six was probably the best in the business; and yes, it did rust, but not as bad as the two cars highlighted in the OP.
My Godfather had an orange 1976 Gremlin. Straight six and automatic. ONLY reason he bought it is b/c it was the cheapest new car he could buy in September 1975. He drove it daily for 12 years, and gave it to our family in around 1987. It would have had absolutely minimal maintenance done to it, and it still ran fine at the end. Body was rusty, but not as bad as you'd expect for a daily driver in Ottawa.....
I'm really, really suprised by the votes in this thread for the Gremlin as a bad car. By the 'standards of the day', the Gremlin was a very solid, reliable car. It's straight six was probably the best in the business; and yes, it did rust, but not as bad as the two cars highlighted in the OP.
My Godfather had an orange 1976 Gremlin. Straight six and automatic. ONLY reason he bought it is b/c it was the cheapest new car he could buy in September 1975. He drove it daily for 12 years, and gave it to our family in around 1987. It would have had absolutely minimal maintenance done to it, and it still ran fine at the end. Body was rusty, but not as bad as you'd expect for a daily driver in Ottawa.....
I had a '72 Vega GT and a '73 Pinto Runabout in college back in the late 70's. The Vega was eventually abandoned in a back alley, but the Pinto that replaced it was a much better car. I paid $300 for the car and it had the 2.0 Cologne engine and a 4-speed trans. I could replace a timing belt in about 30 minutes and ignition points in about 5 minutes. Anything on the car could be fixed or adjusted with either a 1/2", 9/16" or 5/8" box wrench, a pair of screwdrivers and a hammer.
I once folded the driver's door after hitting a pine stump backing down a 2-track in a northern michigan christmas tree plantation in the middle of the winter in about a foot of snow (with Jack Daniels). Bought a new door from a junk yard that afternoon for $5 and installed it in the parking lot. Bought a new exhaust system from Sears for $35 and front shocks for $15. I drove that car 80,000 miles with no major mechanical issues and in the end, it still didn't use any oil or coolant.
By the time I sold the Pinto for what I paid for it, the Vega engine was recycled into Schlitz cans...
I once folded the driver's door after hitting a pine stump backing down a 2-track in a northern michigan christmas tree plantation in the middle of the winter in about a foot of snow (with Jack Daniels). Bought a new door from a junk yard that afternoon for $5 and installed it in the parking lot. Bought a new exhaust system from Sears for $35 and front shocks for $15. I drove that car 80,000 miles with no major mechanical issues and in the end, it still didn't use any oil or coolant.
By the time I sold the Pinto for what I paid for it, the Vega engine was recycled into Schlitz cans...
My Pinto story...
Back in my college days my dad came across someone he knew with a 1972 Pinto Hatchback for sale. Thinking it would be a good little car for me we had a look at it and I purchased it for $1,200.
I started by giving it the "treatment"... in other words everything was gone over and maintenance was brought up to date. I completely gutted the interior and slathered everything with a tar like undercoating, placed plastic sheeting over that, put down extra under padding, the put the carpet and everything else back in. The cowl area around the air intake for the heater had rotted out to the point where water was leaking into the passenger compartment. I fashioned a "fix" for that by fitting in some galvanized stove pipe and slathering the whole thing with tar like undercoating. The fix was good and lasted.
For the time I had it... it was a reliable car. My dad was still around then so he used to help out with things. Today I berate myself for not paying more attention to him back then.
I also have a few memories of folding down the back seat and stuffing the Pinto full (including the passenger) seat with stuff we would be taking out to the cottage. I remeber one time my dad left the larger family car at home... mom was perched on one corner of the folded down rear seat, dad was in the front passenger seat and had a garbage stuff on his lap stuffed with blankets. It was a FULL load out to the cottage that weekend!
After a coupla years I managed to sell the Pinto for $1,500... $300 more than I paid. I then purchased a 1971 Dodge Dart for $900 and had $600 left over for repairs on it.
Aw... the good old days, but I cringe when I think what might have happened had we been rear-ended when the Pinto was stuffed will all of us and other items that weekend on the way to the cottage.
Back in my college days my dad came across someone he knew with a 1972 Pinto Hatchback for sale. Thinking it would be a good little car for me we had a look at it and I purchased it for $1,200.
I started by giving it the "treatment"... in other words everything was gone over and maintenance was brought up to date. I completely gutted the interior and slathered everything with a tar like undercoating, placed plastic sheeting over that, put down extra under padding, the put the carpet and everything else back in. The cowl area around the air intake for the heater had rotted out to the point where water was leaking into the passenger compartment. I fashioned a "fix" for that by fitting in some galvanized stove pipe and slathering the whole thing with tar like undercoating. The fix was good and lasted.
For the time I had it... it was a reliable car. My dad was still around then so he used to help out with things. Today I berate myself for not paying more attention to him back then.
I also have a few memories of folding down the back seat and stuffing the Pinto full (including the passenger) seat with stuff we would be taking out to the cottage. I remeber one time my dad left the larger family car at home... mom was perched on one corner of the folded down rear seat, dad was in the front passenger seat and had a garbage stuff on his lap stuffed with blankets. It was a FULL load out to the cottage that weekend!
After a coupla years I managed to sell the Pinto for $1,500... $300 more than I paid. I then purchased a 1971 Dodge Dart for $900 and had $600 left over for repairs on it.
Aw... the good old days, but I cringe when I think what might have happened had we been rear-ended when the Pinto was stuffed will all of us and other items that weekend on the way to the cottage.
Ah the memories, my first new car...
1974 Vega GT. 2.3 liter w/2 barrel Holley/Weber carb. 4 speed stick.
Car and Driver rated it as the best handling "Super Coupe" of the period which included the Opel Manta, Mazda RX3, Mustang II.
The Vega might have had a junk engine but it was an excellent handling vehicle and would put some of today's vehicles to shame.
Yes, at 50K miles the engine was worn out. Blowing blue smoke. My Father and I spend a summer rebuilding it. We purchased the sleeve kit and had a speed shop bore out the block and press in the sleeves. That solved the oil consumption issues.
Some other quirks that I recall: The water pump mounting holes were slotted and functioned as the tensioner for the timing belt. Install the belt and then pry bar the water pump to the correct tension and tighten the nuts. The rear main engine seal was a weird silicone seal design that was very critical to install or else it would leak badly. The carb had plastic fuel floats which had a nasty habit of leaking and sinking. Yes, the air filter was a one piece paper filter in metal assembly which was replaced as a unit.
The block was aluminum. The head was cast iron. With both stripped down the head weighed more than the block.
1974 and newer had fender liners. Rust was no worse than typical 1970's vehicles.
The engine still had a point ignition system. HEI came later. I installed a CD ignition system.
The rear axle ratio was 2.92:1 which made it feel like you were always starting out in 2nd gear. It begged for a 5 speed which later years offered. Gas mileage cruising at 70 MPH was 32 MPG.
Had it until 1983 and sold it. A little over 100K miles.
1974 Vega GT. 2.3 liter w/2 barrel Holley/Weber carb. 4 speed stick.
Car and Driver rated it as the best handling "Super Coupe" of the period which included the Opel Manta, Mazda RX3, Mustang II.
The Vega might have had a junk engine but it was an excellent handling vehicle and would put some of today's vehicles to shame.
Yes, at 50K miles the engine was worn out. Blowing blue smoke. My Father and I spend a summer rebuilding it. We purchased the sleeve kit and had a speed shop bore out the block and press in the sleeves. That solved the oil consumption issues.
Some other quirks that I recall: The water pump mounting holes were slotted and functioned as the tensioner for the timing belt. Install the belt and then pry bar the water pump to the correct tension and tighten the nuts. The rear main engine seal was a weird silicone seal design that was very critical to install or else it would leak badly. The carb had plastic fuel floats which had a nasty habit of leaking and sinking. Yes, the air filter was a one piece paper filter in metal assembly which was replaced as a unit.
The block was aluminum. The head was cast iron. With both stripped down the head weighed more than the block.
1974 and newer had fender liners. Rust was no worse than typical 1970's vehicles.
The engine still had a point ignition system. HEI came later. I installed a CD ignition system.
The rear axle ratio was 2.92:1 which made it feel like you were always starting out in 2nd gear. It begged for a 5 speed which later years offered. Gas mileage cruising at 70 MPH was 32 MPG.
Had it until 1983 and sold it. A little over 100K miles.
My Gremlin was butt ugly but i ran the poor thing over 2 years and without an oil change!....it burned a quart ever 800-1000 miles so i dumped texaco 30wt in and that was it....
I remember that can of oil rolling around the back of the car
I think its a 232 or 242 inline ford six? my mind is going and I cant remember.
I remember that can of oil rolling around the back of the car
I think its a 232 or 242 inline ford six? my mind is going and I cant remember.
Pintos were by far the better car I had one 100% trouble free and had friends with Vegas that were total pieces of trouble .How many Vegas have you seen over the years I still see an occasional Pinto. I would buy another one if it was the exact same.
Originally Posted By: Axe Man
Car and Driver rated it as the best handling "Super Coupe" of the period which included the Opel Manta, Mazda RX3, Mustang II.
The Vega might have had a junk engine but it was an excellent handling vehicle and would put some of today's vehicles to shame.
Yes. I outfitted mine with Koni shocks and Dunlop radials, which were a very wide, aggressive tire for the time, with the intent of autocrossing. Never got around to actually doing that, but it was definitely fun to drive. My wife still talks about how fun it was.
I remember the timing belt broke at 65K miles, at work on my lunchbreak, my first and only experience with them breaking. I borrowed a car, went home and got my toolbox and another belt, and fixed it in a parking lot.
I also remember the front end was aligned through eccentrics on the lower A-arm mounting points. Mine was hard to keep in adjustment.
Car and Driver rated it as the best handling "Super Coupe" of the period which included the Opel Manta, Mazda RX3, Mustang II.
The Vega might have had a junk engine but it was an excellent handling vehicle and would put some of today's vehicles to shame.
Yes. I outfitted mine with Koni shocks and Dunlop radials, which were a very wide, aggressive tire for the time, with the intent of autocrossing. Never got around to actually doing that, but it was definitely fun to drive. My wife still talks about how fun it was.
I remember the timing belt broke at 65K miles, at work on my lunchbreak, my first and only experience with them breaking. I borrowed a car, went home and got my toolbox and another belt, and fixed it in a parking lot.
I also remember the front end was aligned through eccentrics on the lower A-arm mounting points. Mine was hard to keep in adjustment.
Another memory - The fan was reverse rotation, due to the water pump being used as the idler. When I swapped in the V6, I used the stock vega fan as a first approximation. It took me a few minutes to figure out why, opposite to normal experience, the car would cool fine at idle, but would overheat when driven.
Originally Posted By: addyguy
Neat story and picture. Love seeing that stuff - real stories from 'back in the day'...
Another pix. And me at 21.
Neat story and picture. Love seeing that stuff - real stories from 'back in the day'...
Another pix. And me at 21.
RE: the Gremlin straight six engine... That engine was later used in the Jeep Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and Wrangler as the 4.0 L six. Of course, by then it had HEI, fuel injection, and so on. It was known as a very dependable engine, if not economical.
The 232 cubic inch/3.8L (231.9cuin / 3,801cc) 232 was produced from 1964 through 1979. Through 1970, the engine shared a deck height with the 199. Starting in 1971 AMC raised the deck height to produce the 258, and the 232 adopted the 199's longer connecting rods. Bore and stroke remained the same.
Applications:
Rambler Classic (1964-1966)
Rambler American/AMC Rambler (1964-1969)
Rambler/AMC Marlin (1965-1967)
Rambler/AMC Ambassador (1965-1970)
Rambler/AMC Rebel (1967-70)
AMC Javelin (1968-74)
AMC Hornet (1970-77)
AMC Gremlin (1970-78)
AMC Matador (1971-74)
AMC Pacer (1975-79)
AMC Concord (1978-79)
AMC Spirit (1979)
Jeep CJ (1972-79)
Jeep Cherokee (1974-79)
Jeep Wagoneer (1965-1971)
Jeep J series trucks (1965-1970)
Jeep Commando (1972-1973)
International Harvester Scout (1969-1971)
The 232 inline six was a great engine....if they made a car today with that engine I would buy it. Im a big fan of inline 6's
Applications:
Rambler Classic (1964-1966)
Rambler American/AMC Rambler (1964-1969)
Rambler/AMC Marlin (1965-1967)
Rambler/AMC Ambassador (1965-1970)
Rambler/AMC Rebel (1967-70)
AMC Javelin (1968-74)
AMC Hornet (1970-77)
AMC Gremlin (1970-78)
AMC Matador (1971-74)
AMC Pacer (1975-79)
AMC Concord (1978-79)
AMC Spirit (1979)
Jeep CJ (1972-79)
Jeep Cherokee (1974-79)
Jeep Wagoneer (1965-1971)
Jeep J series trucks (1965-1970)
Jeep Commando (1972-1973)
International Harvester Scout (1969-1971)
The 232 inline six was a great engine....if they made a car today with that engine I would buy it. Im a big fan of inline 6's
Holy long post Batman!
Yes, Ford has had it's share of problems. Should we now list the problems from all the others? GM and Chrysler for starters? Ever heard of GM lower intake manifold problems? Or water pumps that need replaced at about 50K miles?
How about some Chrysler transmissions (just to name a couple off the top of my head.)
Back to the o/p question. I've owned both a Vega and a couple of Pintos. I'd say the hands down the Vega was the worst car. As others mentioned, the engines were junk and considered throw away engines.
While the Pinto 2.3 engines that I had were gutless, if properly taken care of did last a LOT longer than the Vega. I got rear ended in one and walked away from it. No explosion, just a sore neck and back for a couple of days.
Yes, Ford has had it's share of problems. Should we now list the problems from all the others? GM and Chrysler for starters? Ever heard of GM lower intake manifold problems? Or water pumps that need replaced at about 50K miles?
How about some Chrysler transmissions (just to name a couple off the top of my head.)
Back to the o/p question. I've owned both a Vega and a couple of Pintos. I'd say the hands down the Vega was the worst car. As others mentioned, the engines were junk and considered throw away engines.
While the Pinto 2.3 engines that I had were gutless, if properly taken care of did last a LOT longer than the Vega. I got rear ended in one and walked away from it. No explosion, just a sore neck and back for a couple of days.
My sister had a Gremlin the engine was really nice.
Yes oldmaninsc...The list is long for Ford..GM and Fiaslyer....That is why I gave up on them years ago and now have a Honda...
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