Originally Posted By: meep
no bromance. I'm not about bromance....!
But seriously, how can we know for sure?
no bromance. I'm not about bromance....!
But seriously, how can we know for sure?
Varnish: Is it really harmless?
- Thread starter OVERKILL
- Start date
- Status
Our company's various Mercedes cars and suv's have suffered timing chain wear and actual "kinking" (the official term for a failing timing chain with frozen links)
Mostly, or completely due to lack of frequent oil changes and improper choice of oil. Employees take the vehicles home, and they are never seen again, until they break down. Most of the vehicles were on a "program" of free maintenance. Which included very infrequent oil changes anyway.
But, in every case, severe varnish was present.
Also, I've been looking at late model, used BMW's. In nearly every case, there is an incredible amount of sludge. After talking with BMW tech's, I've learned that the BMW "free maintenance" program also includes infrequent oil changes and cheap oil is often used.
I'll stick with Mobil 1 and regular oil changes, thank you...
Mostly, or completely due to lack of frequent oil changes and improper choice of oil. Employees take the vehicles home, and they are never seen again, until they break down. Most of the vehicles were on a "program" of free maintenance. Which included very infrequent oil changes anyway.
But, in every case, severe varnish was present.
Also, I've been looking at late model, used BMW's. In nearly every case, there is an incredible amount of sludge. After talking with BMW tech's, I've learned that the BMW "free maintenance" program also includes infrequent oil changes and cheap oil is often used.
I'll stick with Mobil 1 and regular oil changes, thank you...
Last edited:
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Our company's various Mercedes cars and suv's have suffered timing chain wear and actual "kinking" (the official term for a failing timing chain with frozen links)
Mostly, or completely due to lack of frequent oil changes and improper choice of oil. Employees take the vehicles home, and they are never seen again, until they break down. Most of the vehicles were on a "program" of free maintenance. Which included very infrequent oil changes anyway.
But, in every case, severe varnish was present.
Also, I've been looking at late model, used BMW's. In nearly every case, there is an incredible amount of sludge. After talking with BMW tech's, I've learned that the BMW "free maintenance" program also includes infrequent oil changes and cheap oil is often used.
I'll stick with Mobil 1 and regular oil changes, thank you...
And that in itself is another issue. How do you know the dealers are using an approved lubricant? I think in Germany it is required, but on this side of the pond, I know VW had huge issues with engine failures that were the result of the factory OLM intervals being followed with oil that was not suitable for extended drain use. This was because the dealers were being cheap and buying bulk junk oil or didn't understand the difference between a 5w-30 with an extended drain spec and "SYNTEC" 5w-30 you saw at Canadian Tire.
The integration of vehicles designed with extended drain intervals from the euro marques into the North American market, where nobody was familiar with the concept and that specific oils with specific approvals were REQUIRED for those drain intervals to be used did NOT go well.
But then we see that a lot, people thinking that they can run whatever the heck they want in their car and that the MM act will protect them from their foolishness. Consumer ignorance and arrogance is a big problem here and I believe that extended right up into the places that were doing the maintenance on these cars like your quick lubes and even the dealerships.
"That oil is 8 dollars a quart! for 5w-30? I'll just buy SYNTEQ 5w-30 for $6.00, it's synthetic, it's just as good."
But even a quick survey of current Ford owners, asking them how many of them use oils that meet whatever WSS spec is pertinent to their vehicle would result in a "deer in the headlights" look from the vast majority of them. American/Canadian car owners do not read their vehicle manuals and do not familiarize themselves with the maintenance requirements of their vehicles.
Our company's various Mercedes cars and suv's have suffered timing chain wear and actual "kinking" (the official term for a failing timing chain with frozen links)
Mostly, or completely due to lack of frequent oil changes and improper choice of oil. Employees take the vehicles home, and they are never seen again, until they break down. Most of the vehicles were on a "program" of free maintenance. Which included very infrequent oil changes anyway.
But, in every case, severe varnish was present.
Also, I've been looking at late model, used BMW's. In nearly every case, there is an incredible amount of sludge. After talking with BMW tech's, I've learned that the BMW "free maintenance" program also includes infrequent oil changes and cheap oil is often used.
I'll stick with Mobil 1 and regular oil changes, thank you...
And that in itself is another issue. How do you know the dealers are using an approved lubricant? I think in Germany it is required, but on this side of the pond, I know VW had huge issues with engine failures that were the result of the factory OLM intervals being followed with oil that was not suitable for extended drain use. This was because the dealers were being cheap and buying bulk junk oil or didn't understand the difference between a 5w-30 with an extended drain spec and "SYNTEC" 5w-30 you saw at Canadian Tire.
The integration of vehicles designed with extended drain intervals from the euro marques into the North American market, where nobody was familiar with the concept and that specific oils with specific approvals were REQUIRED for those drain intervals to be used did NOT go well.
But then we see that a lot, people thinking that they can run whatever the heck they want in their car and that the MM act will protect them from their foolishness. Consumer ignorance and arrogance is a big problem here and I believe that extended right up into the places that were doing the maintenance on these cars like your quick lubes and even the dealerships.
"That oil is 8 dollars a quart! for 5w-30? I'll just buy SYNTEQ 5w-30 for $6.00, it's synthetic, it's just as good."
But even a quick survey of current Ford owners, asking them how many of them use oils that meet whatever WSS spec is pertinent to their vehicle would result in a "deer in the headlights" look from the vast majority of them. American/Canadian car owners do not read their vehicle manuals and do not familiarize themselves with the maintenance requirements of their vehicles.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
The integration of vehicles designed with extended drain intervals from the euro marques into the North American market, where nobody was familiar with the concept and that specific oils with specific approvals were REQUIRED for those drain intervals to be used did NOT go well.
But then we see that a lot, people thinking that they can run whatever the heck they want in their car and that the MM act will protect them from their foolishness. Consumer ignorance and arrogance is a big problem here and I believe that extended right up into the places that were doing the maintenance on these cars like your quick lubes and even the dealerships.
That extends to European-derived engines in "domestic" cars also. On the Cruze forums using a full synthetic 5w-30 and changing before the oil life monitor says it's time is preached as UOA-based gospel. There were a lot of doubters, then some poor schmuck wanted help with a trashed 1.4 turbo engine at a reported 30k miles. The quick lube that was reported to be the sole source of oil changes reportedly couldn't find any copies of the guy's receipts, which he did not have. The oil changes were also reported to be very long, using unspecified oil. That thread converted many of the doubters, at least to changing before the OLM said to.
We'll see in a few years how the current crop of small, turbo engines are faring. Mine's varnish-free, at least that I can tell, at 52k miles. The rest of the car's holding up just fine, too.
The integration of vehicles designed with extended drain intervals from the euro marques into the North American market, where nobody was familiar with the concept and that specific oils with specific approvals were REQUIRED for those drain intervals to be used did NOT go well.
But then we see that a lot, people thinking that they can run whatever the heck they want in their car and that the MM act will protect them from their foolishness. Consumer ignorance and arrogance is a big problem here and I believe that extended right up into the places that were doing the maintenance on these cars like your quick lubes and even the dealerships.
That extends to European-derived engines in "domestic" cars also. On the Cruze forums using a full synthetic 5w-30 and changing before the oil life monitor says it's time is preached as UOA-based gospel. There were a lot of doubters, then some poor schmuck wanted help with a trashed 1.4 turbo engine at a reported 30k miles. The quick lube that was reported to be the sole source of oil changes reportedly couldn't find any copies of the guy's receipts, which he did not have. The oil changes were also reported to be very long, using unspecified oil. That thread converted many of the doubters, at least to changing before the OLM said to.
We'll see in a few years how the current crop of small, turbo engines are faring. Mine's varnish-free, at least that I can tell, at 52k miles. The rest of the car's holding up just fine, too.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Many (most?) of the cars will never have this problem. But the ones that DO have the problem, appear to suffer from varnish build-up and I'm curious as to the correlation.
ALL engines have varying degrees of varnish. Its no secret that an engine with worn tensioners would have varnish. Having worn tensioners and varnish does not prove cause and affect.
There are many engines that run perfectly for many tousands of miles with varnish. My DOHC Nissan has over 280K with varnish and no noises or failures.
Many (most?) of the cars will never have this problem. But the ones that DO have the problem, appear to suffer from varnish build-up and I'm curious as to the correlation.
ALL engines have varying degrees of varnish. Its no secret that an engine with worn tensioners would have varnish. Having worn tensioners and varnish does not prove cause and affect.
There are many engines that run perfectly for many tousands of miles with varnish. My DOHC Nissan has over 280K with varnish and no noises or failures.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: asand1
ALL engines have varying degrees of varnish.
Certainly. But having a slight skim around the piston crown is hugely different from having a thick heavy layer all over your valvetrain.
Quote:
Its no secret that an engine with worn tensioners would have varnish.
Then:
Quote:
Having worn tensioners and varnish does not prove cause and affect.
I'm not sure I follow you here. You state that it is of no surprise that an engine with worn tensioners would have varnish. Hinting at there being some form of relationship there. Then you back-out of that statement by saying that there's no cause and effect here. So which is it? If an engine has worn tensioners, why should we NOT be surprised that there is varnish? Shouldn't we see all kinds of engine conditions ranging from pristine to varnish laden if there's no correlation there?
Quote:
There are many engines that run perfectly for many tousands of miles with varnish. My DOHC Nissan has over 280K with varnish and no noises or failures.
I believe I covered that ad nauseum already. Just because an engine has varnish doesn't mean that it is going to magically fail. It means it has varnish. WHERE the varnish forms will determine whether its effects are detrimental or not. On a hydraulic tensioner cylinder, in a piston ring-land. These are areas that can cause problems. If the tensioner fails to tension, the chain can jump, break the case...etc. If the piston rings stick, we get increased blow by, increased oil contamination from combustion by-products and loss of compression resulting in a loss of power and a less efficient engine.
Some engines also seem inherently more tolerant to the effects of varnish build-up. That doesn't make it any less potentially problematic for other applications though. You cannot use your single anecdote to dismiss my theory here. My Expedition has some varnish and it hasn't failed magically either. That doesn't however mean I'm willing to slap on a set of blinders and not notice that engines that I HAVE seen with certain failure models also happen to share this particular characteristic. Which was the point of this thread.
To be clear: I'm not saying that having varnish means an engine is going to fail or something is going to break. What I'm saying is that in certain failure models, I believe varnish to be a contributing factor. I think this is entirely application dependant as well.
ALL engines have varying degrees of varnish.
Certainly. But having a slight skim around the piston crown is hugely different from having a thick heavy layer all over your valvetrain.
Quote:
Its no secret that an engine with worn tensioners would have varnish.
Then:
Quote:
Having worn tensioners and varnish does not prove cause and affect.
I'm not sure I follow you here. You state that it is of no surprise that an engine with worn tensioners would have varnish. Hinting at there being some form of relationship there. Then you back-out of that statement by saying that there's no cause and effect here. So which is it? If an engine has worn tensioners, why should we NOT be surprised that there is varnish? Shouldn't we see all kinds of engine conditions ranging from pristine to varnish laden if there's no correlation there?
Quote:
There are many engines that run perfectly for many tousands of miles with varnish. My DOHC Nissan has over 280K with varnish and no noises or failures.
I believe I covered that ad nauseum already. Just because an engine has varnish doesn't mean that it is going to magically fail. It means it has varnish. WHERE the varnish forms will determine whether its effects are detrimental or not. On a hydraulic tensioner cylinder, in a piston ring-land. These are areas that can cause problems. If the tensioner fails to tension, the chain can jump, break the case...etc. If the piston rings stick, we get increased blow by, increased oil contamination from combustion by-products and loss of compression resulting in a loss of power and a less efficient engine.
Some engines also seem inherently more tolerant to the effects of varnish build-up. That doesn't make it any less potentially problematic for other applications though. You cannot use your single anecdote to dismiss my theory here. My Expedition has some varnish and it hasn't failed magically either. That doesn't however mean I'm willing to slap on a set of blinders and not notice that engines that I HAVE seen with certain failure models also happen to share this particular characteristic. Which was the point of this thread.
To be clear: I'm not saying that having varnish means an engine is going to fail or something is going to break. What I'm saying is that in certain failure models, I believe varnish to be a contributing factor. I think this is entirely application dependant as well.
Every blown up engine I have ever seen was in a Car that was painted. Coincidence?
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: asand1
Every blown up engine I have ever seen was in a Car that was painted. Coincidence?
That's a bit of a strawman. The paint isn't inside the engine where it could potentially cause issues now is it?
Every blown up engine I have ever seen was in a Car that was painted. Coincidence?
That's a bit of a strawman. The paint isn't inside the engine where it could potentially cause issues now is it?
Good question...and good thread.
The engineer in me says...it depends. And where it forms. A little? A little more? Moderate? Severe? My Volvo motor is belt driven. My old SAAB motor was chain-driven. The original tensioner lasted nearly 14 yrs and 250,000mi before I could hear the chain rattle...a little. But it's a MUCH simplier engine and chain path than any of the pics you're posting.
What I DO find frustating is that using synthetic oil in the Volvo-motor over most of its 14 yr life has still allowed the formation of varnish...period. I thought only 'dino-oil' should do that. Perhaps I bought the marketing hype about the cleaning properties of syn. oil while leaving my engineer brain in 'idle' and not being skeptical enough?
Then again perhaps it's my fault for stretching OCI's to 10k mi with synthetic (but with a filter change every 5k mi.)I was using the thick(er) stuff per my thread in the oils section before just recently rethinking that after reading Haas' article.
Then again, it's really hot here in Tx and humid with only two seasons: Summer & January. Maybe those conditions contribute to it?
Further, the use of BG engine flush didn't remove as much of the varnish I observed through the oil fill hole as I was led to believe. I even used it again at the next OCI and I usually drain the oil cooler to boot. While the PCV system never clogged, a vac line did break meaning none of the vapors from the crankcase were being 'pulled' into the intake to burn them. Perhaps that contributed to the varnish?
The engine has never been apart, nor the valve cover, nor head ever removed, nor the oil pan dropped. So internally I don't know what's going on. I don't like the look of the varnish though....and the BG didn't remove what I could see...so I've resigned myself to shorten the OCI's from 10K to about 8k, and using 10W-30 oil that meets the HTHS 3.5 spec (I think that's right) and living with it.
IOW's, I don't think it's possible to remove it, nor most of it from a 14yr old motor with 190+ kmi. without filling it completely with a solvent and letting it sit for a week...but I'm not about to do that!
My neighbor does have a BMW 3 series she's owned for more than 6 yrs now....I ought to peer down the oil filler to have a look. She knows "0" about cars and relies on the service reminder and the dealer for everything.
Lots of 'if's', 'ands' and 'buts' I realize, but there you have it.
The engineer in me says...it depends. And where it forms. A little? A little more? Moderate? Severe? My Volvo motor is belt driven. My old SAAB motor was chain-driven. The original tensioner lasted nearly 14 yrs and 250,000mi before I could hear the chain rattle...a little. But it's a MUCH simplier engine and chain path than any of the pics you're posting.
What I DO find frustating is that using synthetic oil in the Volvo-motor over most of its 14 yr life has still allowed the formation of varnish...period. I thought only 'dino-oil' should do that. Perhaps I bought the marketing hype about the cleaning properties of syn. oil while leaving my engineer brain in 'idle' and not being skeptical enough?
Then again perhaps it's my fault for stretching OCI's to 10k mi with synthetic (but with a filter change every 5k mi.)I was using the thick(er) stuff per my thread in the oils section before just recently rethinking that after reading Haas' article.
Then again, it's really hot here in Tx and humid with only two seasons: Summer & January. Maybe those conditions contribute to it?
Further, the use of BG engine flush didn't remove as much of the varnish I observed through the oil fill hole as I was led to believe. I even used it again at the next OCI and I usually drain the oil cooler to boot. While the PCV system never clogged, a vac line did break meaning none of the vapors from the crankcase were being 'pulled' into the intake to burn them. Perhaps that contributed to the varnish?
The engine has never been apart, nor the valve cover, nor head ever removed, nor the oil pan dropped. So internally I don't know what's going on. I don't like the look of the varnish though....and the BG didn't remove what I could see...so I've resigned myself to shorten the OCI's from 10K to about 8k, and using 10W-30 oil that meets the HTHS 3.5 spec (I think that's right) and living with it.
IOW's, I don't think it's possible to remove it, nor most of it from a 14yr old motor with 190+ kmi. without filling it completely with a solvent and letting it sit for a week...but I'm not about to do that!
My neighbor does have a BMW 3 series she's owned for more than 6 yrs now....I ought to peer down the oil filler to have a look. She knows "0" about cars and relies on the service reminder and the dealer for everything.
Lots of 'if's', 'ands' and 'buts' I realize, but there you have it.
I noticed few things in some of the recent varnish/sludge threads.
- First scenario is a thread with varnished engine, questionable maintenance history and dino use. These are clear cut cases where dino gets the full blame majority of time and synthetic is promptly recommended to clean up the mess.
- Second scenario was with Honda Odysseys with sludged up V6 engines with cylinder deactivation. The ones that used dino oil got the same responses as the first scenario. but there was one poster with firsthand experience where synthetic oil (M1) was used and the engines still sludged up. People's heads exploded and it seemed that nobody could digest the info. Also, since well regarded oil (M1) was in question the thread simply died.
- Third scenario, this thread, has engines with all sorts of level of varnish but it is assumed they all used synthetic oil. However since the recommended synthetic oil is made by disregarded on here Castrol, the blame is now placed in Castrol's name because apparently it's not as good at keeping engines clean when compared to other synthetic oil brands.
These are the cases that I saw in many recent threads about sludge/varnish. It is clear to me that in most of these threads people like to concentrate on oil and blame it for any trouble. If dino is used, then it's a no brainer to most everyone here and they promptly blame dino oil and recommend synthetic. It gets interesting when synthetic oil is involved and the problem is still there, like in this thread or in case of Odyssey thread.
In case of Odyssey, people simply could not comprehend that M1 would not prevent sludge and the topic simply died. In this thread, since M1 is not involved, people blame Castrol, as a company, for the problem implying that other synthetics would do better.
It seems that the notion of other factors, beside oil choice, affecting sludge or varnish buildup escapes posters. Factors like engine design, manufacturer OCI recommendations, how the car is driven, in what climate and in what kind of commute. No, instead people like to simply blame the oil type, or the oil company.
What's even more interesting is that in case of synthetic oil, it never gets blamed as an oil type. Instead, people try to reason that certain oil makers are subpar. It seems to me that a lot of people here still think that synthetic oil cannot cause sludge or varnish simply by virtue of having a synthetic label, so they come up with all sorts of excuses to keep that notion going.
Fact is that all oils will cause varnish or sludge if pushed too far, which seems to be the case in ths thread.
- First scenario is a thread with varnished engine, questionable maintenance history and dino use. These are clear cut cases where dino gets the full blame majority of time and synthetic is promptly recommended to clean up the mess.
- Second scenario was with Honda Odysseys with sludged up V6 engines with cylinder deactivation. The ones that used dino oil got the same responses as the first scenario. but there was one poster with firsthand experience where synthetic oil (M1) was used and the engines still sludged up. People's heads exploded and it seemed that nobody could digest the info. Also, since well regarded oil (M1) was in question the thread simply died.
- Third scenario, this thread, has engines with all sorts of level of varnish but it is assumed they all used synthetic oil. However since the recommended synthetic oil is made by disregarded on here Castrol, the blame is now placed in Castrol's name because apparently it's not as good at keeping engines clean when compared to other synthetic oil brands.
These are the cases that I saw in many recent threads about sludge/varnish. It is clear to me that in most of these threads people like to concentrate on oil and blame it for any trouble. If dino is used, then it's a no brainer to most everyone here and they promptly blame dino oil and recommend synthetic. It gets interesting when synthetic oil is involved and the problem is still there, like in this thread or in case of Odyssey thread.
In case of Odyssey, people simply could not comprehend that M1 would not prevent sludge and the topic simply died. In this thread, since M1 is not involved, people blame Castrol, as a company, for the problem implying that other synthetics would do better.
It seems that the notion of other factors, beside oil choice, affecting sludge or varnish buildup escapes posters. Factors like engine design, manufacturer OCI recommendations, how the car is driven, in what climate and in what kind of commute. No, instead people like to simply blame the oil type, or the oil company.
What's even more interesting is that in case of synthetic oil, it never gets blamed as an oil type. Instead, people try to reason that certain oil makers are subpar. It seems to me that a lot of people here still think that synthetic oil cannot cause sludge or varnish simply by virtue of having a synthetic label, so they come up with all sorts of excuses to keep that notion going.
Fact is that all oils will cause varnish or sludge if pushed too far, which seems to be the case in ths thread.
I think a lot of people try to push the oil in these cars for to long, or simply think they know better than the Germans and run an incorrect oil. I have never seen a German motor that didn't look like brand new inside that had the oil changed every 5k-8k with a good synthetic like Mobil 1 0w40. Even high mileage ones, miles don't seem to matter if the proper oil is used.
As for parts breaking...once in awhile the Germans screw up. AMG's have been lunching some cams lately.
IMHO if its a lease change it when the dash says, if its a car your going to keep dump it once a year or every 5k-8k whichever comes first.
This problem is only going to get worse with just about every manufacture going to turbo chargers. Imagine what the inside of one of those would look like after some 15k mile Jiffy Lube changes!
As for parts breaking...once in awhile the Germans screw up. AMG's have been lunching some cams lately.
IMHO if its a lease change it when the dash says, if its a car your going to keep dump it once a year or every 5k-8k whichever comes first.
This problem is only going to get worse with just about every manufacture going to turbo chargers. Imagine what the inside of one of those would look like after some 15k mile Jiffy Lube changes!
Last edited:
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
These are the cases that I saw in many recent threads about sludge/varnish. It is clear to me that in most of these threads people like to concentrate on oil and blame it for any trouble. If dino is used, then it's a no brainer to most everyone here and they promptly blame dino oil and recommend synthetic. It gets interesting when synthetic oil is involved and the problem is still there, like in this thread or in case of Odyssey thread.
In case of Odyssey, people simply could not comprehend that M1 would not prevent sludge and the topic simply died. In this thread, since M1 is not involved, people blame Castrol, as a company, for the problem implying that other synthetics would do better.
It seems that the notion of other factors, beside oil choice, affecting sludge or varnish buildup escapes posters. Factors like engine design, manufacturer OCI recommendations, how the car is driven, in what climate and in what kind of commute. No, instead people like to simply blame the oil type, or the oil company.
What's even more interesting is that in case of synthetic oil, it never gets blamed as an oil type. Instead, people try to reason that certain oil makers are subpar. It seems to me that a lot of people here still think that synthetic oil cannot cause sludge or varnish simply by virtue of having a synthetic label, so they come up with all sorts of excuses to keep that notion going.
Fact is that all oils will cause varnish or sludge if pushed too far, which seems to be the case in ths thread.
KrisZ:
I'll reference my post from much earlier in the thread here:
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
I don't have a great deal of faith in the OLM after mine didn't appear to compensate AT ALL for the massive fuel dilution I was experiencing with my short tripping this winter. Had I been your regular Joe, I'd still be running that fill Though maybe it got better in later years, as my sister's '03 330i has actually asked her to change the oil recently. She had last done it in the fall when it was done at the dealership when they replaced her filter housing
This reinforces the importance of leveraging UOA's for tracking lubricant health outside of ideal operating conditions. Mine clearly illustrated to me that 10,000Km is too far doing mostly short trips in a Canadian winter, even on a premium synthetic (M1 0w-40).
I don't think that Castrol lubricants "cause" varnish. I think an oil, be it synthetic or dino, run too long, is what causes varnish. The use of "too long" here being a variable that reflects operating condition, the designed life of the lubricant....etc.
I will make reference to the VW dealers killing many a motor with the improper use of a (synthetic) lubricant that wasn't a long-life oil. Yes, it was also a BP product, but that wasn't the problem. The proper lubricant was also a BP product, but had been tested extensively for use in long-drain interval applications.
Dealers in North America, rather than sourcing the Euro-spec lubricant, just used an "equivalent grade" of Castrol Syntec, that wasn't approved for the extended drain intervals and it resulted in engines sludging themselves to death. Not the fault of the lubricant. Not the fault of the design. That was human error.
These are the cases that I saw in many recent threads about sludge/varnish. It is clear to me that in most of these threads people like to concentrate on oil and blame it for any trouble. If dino is used, then it's a no brainer to most everyone here and they promptly blame dino oil and recommend synthetic. It gets interesting when synthetic oil is involved and the problem is still there, like in this thread or in case of Odyssey thread.
In case of Odyssey, people simply could not comprehend that M1 would not prevent sludge and the topic simply died. In this thread, since M1 is not involved, people blame Castrol, as a company, for the problem implying that other synthetics would do better.
It seems that the notion of other factors, beside oil choice, affecting sludge or varnish buildup escapes posters. Factors like engine design, manufacturer OCI recommendations, how the car is driven, in what climate and in what kind of commute. No, instead people like to simply blame the oil type, or the oil company.
What's even more interesting is that in case of synthetic oil, it never gets blamed as an oil type. Instead, people try to reason that certain oil makers are subpar. It seems to me that a lot of people here still think that synthetic oil cannot cause sludge or varnish simply by virtue of having a synthetic label, so they come up with all sorts of excuses to keep that notion going.
Fact is that all oils will cause varnish or sludge if pushed too far, which seems to be the case in ths thread.
KrisZ:
I'll reference my post from much earlier in the thread here:
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
I don't have a great deal of faith in the OLM after mine didn't appear to compensate AT ALL for the massive fuel dilution I was experiencing with my short tripping this winter. Had I been your regular Joe, I'd still be running that fill Though maybe it got better in later years, as my sister's '03 330i has actually asked her to change the oil recently. She had last done it in the fall when it was done at the dealership when they replaced her filter housing
This reinforces the importance of leveraging UOA's for tracking lubricant health outside of ideal operating conditions. Mine clearly illustrated to me that 10,000Km is too far doing mostly short trips in a Canadian winter, even on a premium synthetic (M1 0w-40).
I don't think that Castrol lubricants "cause" varnish. I think an oil, be it synthetic or dino, run too long, is what causes varnish. The use of "too long" here being a variable that reflects operating condition, the designed life of the lubricant....etc.
I will make reference to the VW dealers killing many a motor with the improper use of a (synthetic) lubricant that wasn't a long-life oil. Yes, it was also a BP product, but that wasn't the problem. The proper lubricant was also a BP product, but had been tested extensively for use in long-drain interval applications.
Dealers in North America, rather than sourcing the Euro-spec lubricant, just used an "equivalent grade" of Castrol Syntec, that wasn't approved for the extended drain intervals and it resulted in engines sludging themselves to death. Not the fault of the lubricant. Not the fault of the design. That was human error.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: morris
are chains really better than push rods? i think not.
Push-rod motors have chains too.........
Haha except my old 70's era Chevy pickup with the 250 inline six. But yes, all the V-8s I know of have them. I'm glad my OHC six in my car has a belt after reading all this. Makes me worry a little less. The interval is 109K miles for the belt, 100K for the spark plugs, and I'll probably get them both done at the same time.
Originally Posted By: morris
are chains really better than push rods? i think not.
Push-rod motors have chains too.........
Haha except my old 70's era Chevy pickup with the 250 inline six. But yes, all the V-8s I know of have them. I'm glad my OHC six in my car has a belt after reading all this. Makes me worry a little less. The interval is 109K miles for the belt, 100K for the spark plugs, and I'll probably get them both done at the same time.
Last edited:
- Status
