Hmmm, yes copper went down, but not as much as I had hoped. Maybe Synpower 5W-30 and this engine don't get along.
Valvoline Synpower 5W-30, 6300 mi, GM 3.5L
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Where is it coming from?
nice decrease in wear numbers. synpower ftw
The Valvoline website recommends changing oil between 3K & 4K miles. I really don't understand the hype for extended oil changes. Eighty Five percent of engine wear comes from corrosive combustion byproduct chemicals as compared to fifteen percent abrasion. The TAN is more important than the TBN. I will stick to 3K or 3 months for city, and 4K or 3 months for highway. My engines are worth the few dollars I pay for my on sale synthetic oil.
I would switch oils, as radman said, any synthetic on sale. I'll tell you i really think Quaker State UD 5qts. $19.00@ Walmart. What ever oil you pick I would wait a change before doing a UOA. Try 2 4K's on the second one do your UOA. I bet you the QSUD will do the trick. I don't know what they (BlackStone) are talking about the iron or copper really didn't improve very much they were on pace to equal the the last change. The 2nd UOA should show where you are trending and if you have a problem on your hands.
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Don't think valvoline is the culprit in this UOA - but i do think another run on valvoline will show an improvement.
2.7 TBN...still great retention - let this be known to all who keep complaining that Valvoline has poor TBN retention! could of easily gone much longer as far as tbn was concerned
2.7 TBN...still great retention - let this be known to all who keep complaining that Valvoline has poor TBN retention! could of easily gone much longer as far as tbn was concerned
My math says this is a 4500 mile OCI. Where are you guys coming up with 6300 miles?
Originally Posted By: daves87rs
Originally Posted By: Finklejag
The viscosity and flashpoint held up nice for a 6,300 mile OCI.
+1
Originally Posted By: daves87rs
Originally Posted By: Finklejag
The viscosity and flashpoint held up nice for a 6,300 mile OCI.
+1
Valvoline Synthetic has a virgin TBN of around 8. As the oil picks up contaminates the TAN rises and the TBN falls. It is a general rule that once the TBN hits the halfway mark (which is 4 in this case) the TAN should be close to matching it with a 4 as well. That is the time to change your oil. Waiting to go close to "1" will have your acid levels so high that you will be causing undue wear. I have been reading this forum for a couple of months and these extended oil drain intervals based upon TBN getting as close to one recommended by Blackstone just doesn't make sense for cost savings. Engines wear 7 times greater from acid over abrasion.
6300 = 4500 new math
Originally Posted By: Radman
The Valvoline website recommends changing oil between 3K & 4K miles. I really don't understand the hype for extended oil changes. Eighty Five percent of engine wear comes from corrosive combustion byproduct chemicals as compared to fifteen percent abrasion. The TAN is more important than the TBN. I will stick to 3K or 3 months for city, and 4K or 3 months for highway. My engines are worth the few dollars I pay for my on sale synthetic oil.
More wear occurs when the oil is fresh. Changing oil too frequently actually leads to increased wear than extending the oil changes.
This doesn't even get into the argument about being wasteful.
EDIT: and your assumptions about TBN and TAN behavior are completely inaccurate with regards to your 50% quantification. You can search this board and find contradicting results to your statement.
The Valvoline website recommends changing oil between 3K & 4K miles. I really don't understand the hype for extended oil changes. Eighty Five percent of engine wear comes from corrosive combustion byproduct chemicals as compared to fifteen percent abrasion. The TAN is more important than the TBN. I will stick to 3K or 3 months for city, and 4K or 3 months for highway. My engines are worth the few dollars I pay for my on sale synthetic oil.
More wear occurs when the oil is fresh. Changing oil too frequently actually leads to increased wear than extending the oil changes.
This doesn't even get into the argument about being wasteful.
EDIT: and your assumptions about TBN and TAN behavior are completely inaccurate with regards to your 50% quantification. You can search this board and find contradicting results to your statement.
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I'm the original poster.
First, let me clarify that 6300 miles is the correct amount for this UOA, and 10,000 was correct for the previous run. I'm not sure at the moment where the odometer readings went off track.
Second, I should have said, the previous run was Valvoline Synpower 5W-30 as well. I did not switch oils.
Usage was a 50/50 split city/highway.
A 27 for copper, to me, seems poor.
I've owned other GM pushrod V6's, a Ford DOHC V6, a Nissan 2.4, and copper readings were always in the single digits. Different oils. GC and MaxLife dino and M1.
So I'm guessing Synpower 5W-30 isn't the greatest of choices for this engine.
I switched to Quaker State dino 5W-30 for the current run, I will go about 6000 miles and probably run another UOA to compare the oils.
First, let me clarify that 6300 miles is the correct amount for this UOA, and 10,000 was correct for the previous run. I'm not sure at the moment where the odometer readings went off track.
Second, I should have said, the previous run was Valvoline Synpower 5W-30 as well. I did not switch oils.
Usage was a 50/50 split city/highway.
A 27 for copper, to me, seems poor.
I've owned other GM pushrod V6's, a Ford DOHC V6, a Nissan 2.4, and copper readings were always in the single digits. Different oils. GC and MaxLife dino and M1.
So I'm guessing Synpower 5W-30 isn't the greatest of choices for this engine.
I switched to Quaker State dino 5W-30 for the current run, I will go about 6000 miles and probably run another UOA to compare the oils.
@badtlc, I enjoy someone correcting me. However before I tell someone that they are wrong I would give a source for my information. If you could provide me with a link I would appreciate it. Otherwise I figure that I am right and you are wrong. 
Both my GM 3.1L V6 and my Ford 2.5L V6 I could do once a year oil changes, 10-12k miles, great wear numbers. Using M1 and German Castrol. And I drove those cars HARD. The Ford was a Contour SVT that I tracked on a road course, and being a stick, I revved it out to redline at least once a day, and copper never went above 5 on UOA.
This is the family vehicle, my wife puts on most of the miles, and she's lighter on the throttle than I am. The short trips probably aren't helping, all of our stores are very close to our house.
If the QSGB UOA comes back good, I will probably try a SOPUS synthetic product.
This is the family vehicle, my wife puts on most of the miles, and she's lighter on the throttle than I am. The short trips probably aren't helping, all of our stores are very close to our house.
If the QSGB UOA comes back good, I will probably try a SOPUS synthetic product.
Originally Posted By: badtlc
More wear occurs when the oil is fresh. Changing oil too frequently actually leads to increased wear than extending the oil changes.
I've been wanting to see some information that proves this other then conjecture on Bob. Is there any solid data to confirm?
More wear occurs when the oil is fresh. Changing oil too frequently actually leads to increased wear than extending the oil changes.
I've been wanting to see some information that proves this other then conjecture on Bob. Is there any solid data to confirm?
Originally Posted By: cryption
Originally Posted By: badtlc
More wear occurs when the oil is fresh. Changing oil too frequently actually leads to increased wear than extending the oil changes.
I've been wanting to see some information that proves this other then conjecture on Bob. Is there any solid data to confirm?
There have been some white papers about it posted on this site from what I can recall.
You can test it yourself. Extrapolate the wear numbers from several UOAs and OCIs. You'll see the wear numbers per mile drop rather significantly as the OCI goes on until the oil is spent.
Originally Posted By: badtlc
More wear occurs when the oil is fresh. Changing oil too frequently actually leads to increased wear than extending the oil changes.
I've been wanting to see some information that proves this other then conjecture on Bob. Is there any solid data to confirm?
There have been some white papers about it posted on this site from what I can recall.
You can test it yourself. Extrapolate the wear numbers from several UOAs and OCIs. You'll see the wear numbers per mile drop rather significantly as the OCI goes on until the oil is spent.
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@baldtlc Just a quick link for proofing my earlier statement regarding TBN/TAN.
http://www.polarislabs1.com/pdf/optimizing-drain-intervals-using-tbn-vs-tan.pdf
http://www.polarislabs1.com/pdf/optimizing-drain-intervals-using-tbn-vs-tan.pdf
Originally Posted By: badtlc
There have been some white papers about it posted on this site from what I can recall.
You can test it yourself. Extrapolate the wear numbers from several UOAs and OCIs. You'll see the wear numbers per mile drop rather significantly as the OCI goes on until the oil is spent.
I did a quick search but haven't been able to find anything.
Radman: excellent read, I'm going to keep an eye on the TAN and change accordingly.
There have been some white papers about it posted on this site from what I can recall.
You can test it yourself. Extrapolate the wear numbers from several UOAs and OCIs. You'll see the wear numbers per mile drop rather significantly as the OCI goes on until the oil is spent.
I did a quick search but haven't been able to find anything.
Radman: excellent read, I'm going to keep an eye on the TAN and change accordingly.
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