Valvoline "Restore" & ST 10k blend VOA

[jetman]

And now for something completely different.
1/3rd Valvoline PB "Restore" 10w30 mixed with 2/3rds SuperTech 10k 5w30.
Put this mixture/custom blend in my 226+k mile 2007 Toyota FJ gasoline 4.0L 1GR-FE VVTi .
I still have 3 more gals of the VPB Restore to use in something?

 

[buster]

Oxidation spike from the Restore. VOA of that shows an oxidation spike of 110.

 

[jetman]

Yes
and Speediagnostix for viscosity grade they should have had another "1" to make it 11.7 cSt

 

[fantastic]

Oxidation spike from the Restore. VOA of that shows an oxidation spike of 110.

I was going to ask which one it was coming from Restore or ST. Looks like this brew turned out just fine. I see Silicon at 10 & see oils at around 5 a lot of times. Do we know which one may be contributing to the silicon? That's the only thing I don't like about this brew process... The unknowns & don't want to throw off the balance of the additive package. But I'll say a VOA on both would settle that.

The 11.1 puts this around the top of a 5w-30.

 

[himemsys]

Why did they test TAN but not TBN?

 

[jetman]

Why did they test TAN but not TBN?

???

 

[fantastic]

Why did they test TAN but not TBN?

TBN is outdated & TAN is a better reflection of where the oil stands to neutralize acids etc. Apparently, TBN was for Diesel oil anyways. I've heard all of this for many years now but TAN not being as common as TBN makes this transition a bit awkward.

 

[himemsys]

TAN is typically used for transmission fluids while TBN is used for engine oil. Oil Analyzers, by default, uses TBN for engine oil. I'd think one would have to request that they do TAN instead of TBN if the sample is engine oil.

 

[wemay]

TBN is more telling in a UOA not a VOA.

 

[himemsys]

I understand that people have differing opinions about TBN vs TAN in UOA vs VOA. My point is by default, oil analysis will not typically run TAN on any engine oil, whether used or virgin, unless the customer specificially requests. Otherwise, TBN is normally run.

edit: TAN only makes sense if you have both a virgin value and a used value to compare to, from the same oil. TBN can be used to ascertain potential oil life in a virgin sample as well as how much active additive is remaining in a used sample.

 

[fantastic]

I understand that people have differing opinions about TBN vs TAN in UOA vs VOA. My point is by default, oil analysis will not typically run TAN on any engine oil, whether used or virgin, unless the customer specificially requests. Otherwise, TBN is normally run.

edit: TAN only makes sense if you have both a virgin value and a used value to compare to, from the same oil. TBN can be used to ascertain potential oil life in a virgin sample as well as how much active additive is remaining in a used sample.

I know some oil labs have different kit #'s that will offer Tan or tbn & then other UOA kit#'s that don't include either as an example.

Example: I have 2 different UOA kits on the shelf

Schaeffer's kit 919 Offers No TBN or TAN & Schaeffer's kit 928 Offers TBN or TAN

Kit 928 WILL by default offer me TBN or TAN

 

[jetman]

Why did they test TAN but not TBN?

When I submitted the sample I asked for BOTH TBN and TAN. They are sending me another report soon with BOTH and I'll post that report when I get it.

 

[fantastic]

When I submitted the sample I asked for BOTH TBN and TAN. They are sending me another report soon with BOTH and I'll post that report when I get it.

Maybe they can decipher how they correlate if at all? Thanks!

 

[jetman]

Here it is with both TBN & TAN:

 

[fantastic]

TBN goes down while TAN goes up is a simple starter to both numbers. Since this is new oil it's no surprise the TAN is a lower number. Thanks for getting both!

 

[jetman]

Yes, they only charge $5 for the extra data.

 

[fantastic]

Yes, they only charge $5 for the extra data.

Can't beat that! Are you going to run this, in your Toyota?, & then get another $5 AN & BN results again?

 

[jetman]

Can't beat that! Are you going to run this, in your Toyota?, & then get another $5 AN & BN results again?

yes I put it in my Toyota a week ago and I'll get a UOA with both at 10k miles.

 

[himemsys]

Here it is with both TBN & TAN:
View attachment 162676

Nice, thanks for sharing! Typically, TAN is used in transmission fluids as such: obtain the virgin TAN, then take a used sample of the same fluid later. The value will increase with use. What I've read is that once the used value is 3x-4x higher than the virgin value, then the fluid is spent. I've also read that it can be used in conjunction with TBN on engine oil and where the two cross over is the indication that the oil is spent. So let's say TBN starts at 7.61 and TAN starts at 1.94. At some point during use, TAN will become the larger number. When that happens, the oil is considered spent. I don't know how valid the second method is, I've heard it is outdated now. But just relaying what I've read.

It's critical is using TAN that you have the starting virgin value because some fluids have a much higher starting TAN than others. Let's say you're testing transmission fluid. You're using one type/brand to obtain the virgin value and another type/brand in your transmission. If the virgin TAN of one type/brand is 4 but the other is 1.5, then you can see how it would be easy to condemn a good fluid or keep using a spent fluid.

edit: and this is why you can get information from used TBN without having the virgin value. Because TBN becomes condemned when it reaches a low point (some say 2, other say 1). You don't need the starting value, just the ending value. But a used TAN is useless without also having the starting value of the same fluid.

 

[jetman]

Nice, thanks for sharing! Typically, TAN is used in transmission fluids as such: obtain the virgin TAN, then take a used sample of the same fluid later. The value will increase with use. What I've read is that once the used value is 3x-4x higher than the virgin value, then the fluid is spent. I've also read that it can be used in conjunction with TBN on engine oil and where the two cross over is the indication that the oil is spent. So let's say TBN starts at 7.61 and TAN starts at 1.94. At some point during use, TAN will become the larger number. When that happens, the oil is considered spent. I don't know how valid the second method is, I've heard it is outdated now. But just relaying what I've read.

It's critical is using TAN that you have the starting virgin value because some fluids have a much higher starting TAN than others. Let's say you're testing transmission fluid. You're using one type/brand to obtain the virgin value and another type/brand in your transmission. If the virgin TAN of one type/brand is 4 but the other is 1.5, then you can see how it would be easy to condemn a good fluid or keep using a spent fluid.

edit: and this is why you can get information from used TBN without having the virgin value. Because TBN becomes condemned when it reaches a low point (some say 2, other say 1). You don't need the starting value, just the ending value. But a used TAN is useless without also having the starting value of the same fluid.

I was talking to a retired GM/Allison fluids engineer yesterday, and they mentioned the condemnation point being when the two crossed. I'd heard that before somewhere? and them saying it validated that with me.