Valvoline Group 4 PAO?

Pennzoil motor oil
GI_GRIFF said:
This is my somewhat rough guess just from reading, not college. Castrol Euro Car 0W-30 A3/B4 has too much zinc and some other additives to meet the EPA SP or SQ plus the SP has to have the lower HTHS value for the sake of pulling an extra 1/10 of 1% fuel milage increase on the engine test stands for CAFE standards compliance. and yes, I am exaggerating. This Castrol 0W-30 meets ACEA C3 which requires an HTHS value of >3.5. Mobil 1 ESP 0w30 also meets that ACEA value. I have been told by oil tech employees that most EURO oils actually exceed the API ratings in many ways, but can't meet certain API ratings, say the HTHS value and Catalytic converter protection with their additives. Another example is Royal Purple HPS 5W-30. It carries no API ratings at all; they don't even try. The HTHS value on that 5W-30 is 3.8. Because of that and the additives they use to add their "Synerlec" magic potion, they can't meet API ratings. None of the Royal Purple API rated engine oils have the "Synerlec" in them. I am sure some of this is not exactly right, hopefully you get the idea though. It is about having too much anti wear additives and making the HTHS values too high to meet the API specs.
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I’m not sure this Castrol Euro info is 100% correct. Paging @edyvw .
I’ll state my “understanding.” There is, and has been for sometime a Castrol Euro 0w-30 SL A3B4. High SAPS?? There was a 0w-40 version with “similar” characteristics, but supposedly less PAO. Because of the API ratings criteria, the 0w-40 met SN, while the 0w-30 was “stuck at” SL, because too much zinc / phosphorus / ash for a 30 grade (same amounts in a 40 grade allowed SN rating). It’s the criteria that change for 30 wt vs 40 wt dictating the SL vs SN, not the oil’s formulation.

There is a SEPARATE Euro 0w-30 which is C3 rated. Lower SAPS? That version might be harder to find, though neither is easy to find, at Walmart for instance. I got my A3/B4 version at AdvancedAuto.

But seeing another thread you started, you had some “recent” Made in Belgium Euro. My latest 0w-30 says “made in USA from domestic and imported components.” I THINK the date code is 24051. @EllieMae94 posted a VOA ( https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/castrol-edge-euro-0w-30-a3-b4.401327/ ). Less Ti than before, more Mg/less Ca, and who knows, but possibly less PAO than before.

I’ve been very happy with this older Euro Castrol in my 07 Turbo EJ25 stick-shift Subaru, which sadly, I need to part ways with. I really loved that car, but it just doesn’t fit my needs anymore, and I have too many cars at the moment. A stickshift in DFW stop & go gets old. Once the traffic lightened up, the car was a stone groove, my man, with its modded suspension. But that’s a different story
IMG_0216.webp
IMG_4676.webp

Whoops, sorry for the blatant plug / highjack.
 
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Impatient said:
I’m not sure this Castrol Euro info is 100% correct. Paging @edyvw .
I’ll state my “understanding.” There is, and has been for sometime a Castrol Euro 0w-30 SL A3B4. High SAPS?? There was a 0w-40 version with “similar” characteristics, but supposedly less PAO. Because of the API ratings criteria, the 0w-40 met SN, while the 0w-30 was “stuck at” SL, because too much zinc / phosphorus / ash for a 30 grade (same amounts in a 40 grade allowed SN rating). It’s the criteria that change for 30 wt vs 40 wt dictating the SL vs SN, not the oil’s formulation.

There is a SEPARATE Euro 0w-30 which is C3 rated. Lower SAPS? That version might be harder to find, though neither is easy to find, at Walmart for instance. I got my A3/B4 version at AdvancedAuto.

But seeing another thread you started, you had some “recent” Made in Belgium Euro. My latest 0w-30 says “made in USA from domestic and imported components.” I THINK the date code is 24051. @EllieMae94 posted a VOA ( https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/castrol-edge-euro-0w-30-a3-b4.401327/ ). Less Ti than before, more Mg/less Ca, and who knows, but possibly less PAO than before.

I’ve been very happy with this older Euro Castrol in my 07 Turbo EJ25 stick-shift Subaru, which sadly, I need to part ways with. I really loved that car, but it just doesn’t fit my needs anymore, and I have too many cars at the moment. A stickshift in DFW stop & go gets old. Once the traffic lightened up, the car was a stone groove, my man, with its modded suspension. But that’s a different storyView attachment 312486View attachment 312487
Whoops, sorry for the blatant plug / highjack.
Click to expand...
Castrol Euro 0W30 (and 5W30) have phosphorus above 800ppm.
API limited phosphorus levels to 800ppm for XW30, 20 since API SM.
Nothing to do with HTHS, Sulfated Ash levels.
 
edyvw said:
Castrol Euro 0W30 (and 5W30) have phosphorus above 800ppm.
API limited phosphorus levels to 800ppm for XW30, 20 since API SM.
Nothing to do with HTHS, Sulfated Ash levels.
Click to expand...
Well, I was close. (???) 🤣😂

Am I right there is a C3 version (Castrol Euro 0w-30 LL), separate from the A3B4 version.
 
Carlostrece said:
Does Valvoline use group 4 PAO in any of its oils?

Maxlife High Mileage Full Synthetic 5w30?
Valvoline Extended Protection High Mileage Full Synthetic 5w30?
Click to expand...

At the risk of my already questionable social standing on BITOG, I’ll quote from the Valvoline Extended Protection High Mileage 5W-30 SDS:

“Distillates (Fischer-Tropsch), heavy 80-100%”

I think this means it is built with GTL, which is pretty good.
 
 
GI_GRIFF said:
This is my somewhat rough guess just from reading, not college. Castrol Euro Car 0W-30 A3/B4 has too much zinc
Click to expand...
Zinc isn't restricted, it's the phosphorous, which is the main AW ingredient in ZDDP. The API caps phosphorous at 800ppm for anything API SM and newer, but this limit only applies on grades xW-30 and below, xW-40 and above grades are exempt.
GI_GRIFF said:
and some other additives to meet the EPA SP or SQ plus the SP has to have the lower HTHS value for the sake of pulling an extra 1/10 of 1% fuel milage increase on the engine test stands for CAFE standards compliance. and yes, I am exaggerating. This Castrol 0W-30 meets ACEA C3 which requires an HTHS value of >3.5. Mobil 1 ESP 0w30 also meets that ACEA value. I have been told by oil tech employees that most EURO oils actually exceed the API ratings in many ways, but can't meet certain API ratings, say the HTHS value and Catalytic converter protection with their additives.
Click to expand...
The API does not restrict HTHS, this is why Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30, which has an HTHS of at least 3.5cP, is SP.
GI_GRIFF said:
Another example is Royal Purple HPS 5W-30. It carries no API ratings at all; they don't even try. The HTHS value on that 5W-30 is 3.8. Because of that and the additives they use to add their "Synerlec" magic potion, they can't meet API ratings. None of the Royal Purple API rated engine oils have the "Synerlec" in them. I am sure some of this is not exactly right, hopefully you get the idea though. It is about having too much anti wear additives and making the HTHS values too high to meet the API specs.
Click to expand...
The API limits a few things beyond phosphorous, but as noted, HTHS isn't one of them.
- Sulfur 0W-xx and 5W-xx 0.5% max
- Sulfur 10W-30 and all other grades 0.6% max
- Noack of 15% or lower
- Phosphorous retention of 81% or higher

From what I recall, "Synerlec" is a sulfated ester, which likely vetoes any chance of carrying an API approval even if the phosphorous level is low enough.
 
OVERKILL said:
Zinc isn't restricted, it's the phosphorous, which is the main AW ingredient in ZDDP. The API caps phosphorous at 800ppm for anything API SM and newer, but this limit only applies on grades xW-30 and below, xW-40 and above grades are exempt.

The API does not restrict HTHS, this is why Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30, which has an HTHS of at least 3.5cP, is SP.

The API limits a few things beyond phosphorous, but as noted, HTHS isn't one of them.
- Sulfur 0W-xx and 5W-xx 0.5% max
- Sulfur 10W-30 and all other grades 0.6% max
- Noack of 15% or lower
- Phosphorous retention of 81% or higher

From what I recall, "Synerlec" is a sulfated ester, which likely vetoes any chance of carrying an API approval even if the phosphorous level is low enough.
Click to expand...
Thanks @OVERKILL for the education. Obviously, some of the stuff I have heard or read is coming from people no better educated on this than I am! Thanks again.
 
GI_GRIFF said:
This is my somewhat rough guess just from reading, not college. Castrol Euro Car 0W-30 A3/B4 has too much zinc and some other additives to meet the EPA SP or SQ plus the SP has to have the lower HTHS value for the sake of pulling an extra 1/10 of 1% fuel milage increase on the engine test stands for CAFE standards compliance. and yes, I am exaggerating. This Castrol 0W-30 meets ACEA C3 which requires an HTHS value of >3.5. Mobil 1 ESP 0w30 also meets that ACEA value. I have been told by oil tech employees that most EURO oils actually exceed the API ratings in many ways, but can't meet certain API ratings, say the HTHS value and Catalytic converter protection with their additives. Another example is Royal Purple HPS 5W-30. It carries no API ratings at all; they don't even try. The HTHS value on that 5W-30 is 3.8. Because of that and the additives they use to add their "Synerlec" magic potion, they can't meet API ratings. None of the Royal Purple API rated engine oils have the "Synerlec" in them. I am sure some of this is not exactly right, hopefully you get the idea though. It is about having too much anti wear additives and making the HTHS values too high to meet the API specs.
Click to expand...
The Royal Purple HMX has synerlec in it and is API, SP rated. The regular high performance is SQ, GF-7, has no synerlec ,but moly, and boron ,Zn&ph. in its formula instead, only partly to please the dexos 3 and recourse conserving. the hmx 5w-30 has a hths of 3.3 and the HP 5w-30 has a hths of 3.2, both are fine oils .
 
facility1 said:
The Royal Purple HMX has synerlec in it and is API, SP rated. The regular high performance is SQ, GF-7, has no synerlec ,but moly, and boron ,Zn&ph. in its formula instead, only partly to please the dexos 3 and recourse conserving. the hmx 5w-30 has a hths of 3.3 and the HP 5w-30 has a hths of 3.2, both are fine oils .
Click to expand...
I don't believe it is actually API SP, it says it meets the "performance requirements" of API SP and meets the warranty requirements of API SL and they are recommending it for vehicles with over 75,000 miles, which would likely be out of warranty anyway.
1764556875095.webp

1764556947427.webp


And this observation is consistent with the list of approved products on the API website, which only lists the "High Performance" lineup, which doesn't have Synerlec:
1764557191355.webp
 
OVERKILL said:
I don't believe it is actually API SP, it says it meets the "performance requirements" of API SP and meets the warranty requirements of API SL and they are recommending it for vehicles with over 75,000 miles, which would likely be out of warranty anyway.
View attachment 312867
View attachment 312868

And this observation is consistent with the list of approved products on the API website, which only lists the "High Performance" lineup, which doesn't have Synerlec:
View attachment 312870
Click to expand...
Yes it is either API licensed or not, as opposed to "API SP rated". Just as Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30 is not API SP licensed.
 
Carlostrece said:
Perhaps that was a contributing factor. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Castrol is the reason G3 can legally be called FS.
Click to expand...
There is no "legal" about it. Besides, Group I, II and III designations are not determined by the method of manufacture, in fact that is excluded. They are determined by performance. You can use any method of manufacture to achieve the required performance.
 
kschachn said:
There is no "legal" about it. Besides, Group I, II and III designations are not determined by the method of manufacture, in fact that is excluded. They are determined by performance. You can use any method of manufacture to achieve the required performance.
Click to expand...
Shannow

Thread 'The Castrol/Mobil "court case" - how it went down'

Found this this morning and thought that it was a good article on WHAT was argued and decided on and by who.

Will post a lot of the article, just in case it goes missing on the Interwebs
http://xtremerevolution.net/a-defining-moment-for-synthetics-by-katherine-bui-lubricants-world-1999/
 
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